So... which countries are our "friends"?

[Selcen]

What is Armenia without Armenians? I know it is easy for me to say since I have not experienced such hardship, but I wasn't being smug at all.

[radar]

It seems that people in this forum have a tendency to relate everything about Ottomans with stupid orientalistic imaginations, and some ignorant Turks boost these popular imaginations. I recommend you to read some serious books instead of caricaturize those popular stereotypes. But whom I am talking with, what can I expect!
OK, I give up, believe whatever you want.

[Red Brigade]

You are Middle Eastern if you like it or not.

Armenia is located in Transcaucasia , we are thus Caucausians , since Armenians are the indigenous population of the south Caucausus.Sorry to bust your bubble.

If you are such a smart and patient people how come you are in the situation you are now?

I agree. We should have been evil as well, because that is how you must treat to the evil people who can't sit in the table and conversate like civilized humans.

How come your population decreased by more than a million people in the last decade which didn't happen in other former Soviet countries?

The decrease of the population in Armenia was something good,since those who emmigrated are sending their momey back to their families in Armenia.

You can already go picknicking beneath Ararat right now. All you have to do is hop on a plane and come visit us. Don't worry your grandsons will be able to buy homes at Lake Sevan anyway.

Armenians and generaly foriegners are having a very hard time to buy land in Turkey.The Turkish Government is scared that we shall do to you what the Zionists did to the Arabs.We thus can't step our foots in Turkey.I clearly remember a case of an Englishman who had to bribe every turkish bureaucrat in order to buy a piece of land, just because he was a foriegner.

Other countries like Azerbaijan and Georgia are also dirt poor, but they are still patriotic enough to stay in their country and suffer in dignity.

Awww they are patriotic ..or is it perhaps because they can't even emmigrate.

This one takes the cake.

The same goes for millions of Turks who live in poverty but stand by their country.

Do you know how many Turks are living just in Germany?The Turks who are out of Turkey are more than the entire Armenian population on the earth, that is how much patriotic Turks are.

[radar]

Not jst in the government - but in yoru society. I've been there and have seen the changes over the past decade - even from year to year in the past few years...I know urban educated Turks like to think that Turkey is practically European and that European values and standards are the norm - but unfortunatly this is not true outside of the more wealth off urban areas in Western Anatolia. Do you think these Islamics are amatures? Don't be so certain - they know what they are doing as they wittle away and they are well funded from outside. I've seen how they provide charity for the poor (don't forget they were once called the "Welfare party" and for good reason) where the major parties ignore them. Your Kemalist elites are much like the Shah of Iran...isolated and basking in their own continued corruption...meanwhile fostering anti-Western sentiments (to avoid facing up to their sordid past and to maintin their status quo) and this latter brilliant move will certainly be their downfall - and yours...So enjoy your Raki and halter tops while it lasts - i fear that it may not be long before it manditory prayer 5 times a day and black tents for the ladies...

Another stereotype about relating everything in Turkey black or white. There is no Kemalist vs Islam war in Turkey. People who you consider "Islamist" are generally ordinary Turkish citizens who are maybe more conservative then others. They are not fundamentalist and Islam is not rising.

[Selcen]

It seems that people in this forum have a tendency to relate everything about Ottomans with stupid orientalistic imaginations, and some ignorant Turks boost these popular imaginations. I recommend you to read some serious books instead of caricaturize those popular stereotypes. But whom I am talking with, what can I expect!
OK, I give up, believe whatever you want.

Don't you worry my dear radar. There aren't many thing to rejoice about the Ottoman Empire. It isn't a stereotype. I know it is the Aman komşular duymasın! (The neighbours shouldn't hear it!) reflex. Even if one reads such amateur historians like Murat Bardakçı and Hıfzı Topuz people will get a sobering effect on history.

[Selcen]

Not jst in the government - but in yoru society. I've been there and have seen the changes over the past decade - even from year to year in the past few years...I know urban educated Turks like to think that Turkey is practically European and that European values and standards are the norm - but unfortunatly this is not true outside of the more wealth off urban areas in Western Anatolia. Do you think these Islamics are amatures? Don't be so certain - they know what they are doing as they wittle away and they are well funded from outside. I've seen how they provide charity for the poor (don't forget they were once called the "Welfare party" and for good reason) where the major parties ignore them. Your Kemalist elites are much like the Shah of Iran...isolated and basking in their own continued corruption...meanwhile fostering anti-Western sentiments (to avoid facing up to their sordid past and to maintin their status quo) and this latter brilliant move will certainly be their downfall - and yours...So enjoy your Raki and halter tops while it lasts - i fear that it may not be long before it manditory prayer 5 times a day and black tents for the ladies...

Winoman, the ordinary Turkish population would not allow such a thing if it came to this. As retarded and backward some of their members are, especially Prime Minister Tayyip Erdoğan, there are some high-quality types like Abdullah Gül, Ömer Çelik and Abdülatif Şener. They are more conservative members among them, but only a very few can be considered to be fundamentalists.

[winoman]

No that place has never been a warzone. The view is simply breathtaking. Come visit us and enjoy our Turkish hospitality.

Agreed...been there...

[Selcen]

Even the most conservative Turks appreciate secularism. There are no divisions as radar put it. Keep dreaming.

[winoman]

Winoman, the ordinary Turkish population would not allow such a thing if it came to this. As retarded and backward some of their members are, especially Prime Minister Tayyip Erdoğan, there are some high-quality types like Abdullah Gül, Ömer Çelik and Abdülatif Şener. They are more conservative members among them, but only a very few can be considered to be fundamentalists.

I understand the posture of the Virtue party (or whatever the MGK is allowing them to be called at the moment) - but I am also familiar with their secret aspirations and those of certain of their supports.

You refer us to the will of "the ordinary Turkish population" and suggest that they can or will be able to prevent anything - since when in Turkey's history has the population ever been able to truly effect government action or policy? Please ask yourself this and consider your dire situation...yes it is entirely out of your hands...but I suppose blood will run...

[winoman]

Another stereotype about relating everything in Turkey black or white. There is no Kemalist vs Islam war in Turkey. People who you consider "Islamist" are generally ordinary Turkish citizens who are maybe more conservative then others. They are not fundamentalist and Islam is not rising.

You need to get out more. The bars in Taksim just don't cut it neither do the hallowed halls at Bilkent....