The Founding Fathers of Modern Turkey

[1.5 million]

Agree. The Armenian Genocide is not a zionist conspiracy. The true culprit is a combination or pan-Turanism and islamo-fascism. Some people just want to blame Jews for everything and anything under the sun.

What is funny is that these very same people like to blame the jews for the Communist revolution/takeover in Russia - just because of the presence/key involvement of a number of Jews in prominant roles. Of course their were Jewish people involved - this is not disputed...but were they really acting as Jews for the purpose of furthering some international jewish conspiracy or were they ideologically driven people with entirely their own agenda. the answer is clearly the latter. Can anyone say the the Soviet Union was an Empire that was serving Jews in any way considering the extreme persecution Jews suffered there and can anyone truly tie the Pan-Turkic CUP to any sort of Jewish movement when the CUP was equally anti-Jewish and discussed and even took action to exterminate Jews along with Armenains, greeks and Assyrians. Absolutely not. Anyone who claims such is either ignornat of the true events and forces and motivations of those involved or is deliberatly fooling us by claiming uch when they know better and they are doing it not with any regrad for or interest in achieving the truth but to further their own racist anti-semitic hateful agenda. We have no need for the likes of these types.

[Gavur]

Free speech rules says Mr. Dink or have we forgotten ?
I feel unless theres direct threat of harm as a result of unconstrained speech ,I wholeheartedly agree with Mr. Dink
You really can't say one way or another if these are anymore then just conspiracy theories (I think they just that) so what followers of thus have an International conference of sorts ,so do the UFO sigthers and others.
But we must be very carefull not to catagoriz ant group certain people as haters because we might be doing what we are exactly accusing them of!
last I checked eye for an eye doesnt work for me or my belief system.
So ,not to set a new precedent of unwarranted constraint of anti-speech I abstain.

[Varouj]

Armenian Genocide Forum's tribute to Hrank Dink:

[Hovik]

Come on, you are intelligent guys...

Varouj, Gavur,

You've been in this forum long enough to know what we're dealing with here. In 2005 we had a veritable tsunami of new members and jewish conspiracy theories flood this forum. We are here to discuss and debate ideas that could be or are true. Now, further criminalizing (without evidence or scholarship) an entire nation for Genocide (which is exactly what this "CUP were Jewish") garbage is trying to do, is absurd in my opinon. But thats not really why we have a rule against it. It's counter productive, and a distraction from legitimate debate.

Why does Varouj report a post to the moderation team 2 days ago for "Armenian Genocide denial"? Why doesn't his freedom of speech ideal cover that too? I'll tell you why, because we have mounds of evidence supporting the fact of the Armenian Genocide, and there is no evidence against it. So remember that just like we have mounds of evidence that the Young Turks were -----TURKS and NO evidence against it.

Here is what Peter Balakian had to say about it in a July 2006 e-mail to myself:

"My feeling is this idea that there is a Jewish dimension to the Young Turk movement is just another example of classic anti-semitism--it's wrong historically and ethically."

If you don't support our credible historians like Mr. Balakian and scores of others, to find the truth and bring it to our attention, whose word are you going on here? Their freedom of speech / thought? They are free to assert that it was eskimos that secretly came down to Germany and undertook the holocaust against Jews and framed the Germans, I have no right to take that freedom from them, BUT, it doesn't belong in this forum - This amateurism belongs in a forum where no evidence or scholarship is needed to make outlandish claims... we have enough pertinent issues do deal with here.

P.S. If you're going to try to play the Dink card on me remember what you're comparing. Dink's opposition was to Turkey's Article 301, for which he and other intellectuals were PROSECUTED. If Turkey had said, everyone is entitled to his/her freedom of speech but there are appropriate forums for things and inappropriate forums for things in Turkey, just choose the right place, I'm sure Dink would've been ecstatic. And that is what is happening here. Nobody is taking away anyone's freedom of speech, there are just certain things that belong here and certain things that don't. And finally, ArmenianGenocide.com hasn't prosecuted anyone in courts of law... so overall - poor comparison.

[Gavur]

Unlike Balakian I believe theres a Zionist/Mason dimension to the Armenian Genocide because allmost all of the young Turks were! thats a historical fact!
whether they were Jews,Turks or gypsy I dont know.
Its all a big secret ,that much I know!Maybe its the masons that need to open up their archives for humanity !whats the big secret?

I don't know if its classic or neo anti-semitism or what!
but to me its disgusting to label people and I would expect that to be beneath Balakian ,in a amaturish way.

By the way Joseph is doing an excellent job
I enjoy reading you guys and proud of the direction this forum is going.
tsezi shad gisirem.

[1.5 million]

I'm waiting to see some quotes from Talat and Enver and even Gokalp that express Zionist sentiment...etc ....NOT...please lets get real here. We risk having others see the Armenian Genocide itself as some kind of conspiracy theory if we keep this up. And we also risk being branded as racists and such - none of this is scholarly in any way - and none of it does us any good either. Quite the opposite.

[Hovik]

I'm waiting to see some quotes from Talat and Enver and even Gokalp that express Zionist sentiment...etc ....NOT...please lets get real here. We risk having others see the Armenian Genocide itself as some kind of conspiracy theory if we keep this up. And we also risk being branded as racists and such - none of this is scholarly in any way - and none of it does us any good either. Quite the opposite.

Couldn't agree more... The Jews have committed their share of crimes, but there is no evidence to suggest that this was one of them... lets not use such an asinine theory to destroy our credibility on topics that are really important...

[Joseph]

Couldn't agree more... The Jews have committed their share of crimes, but there is no evidence to suggest that this was one of them... lets not use such an asinine theory to destroy our credibility on topics that are really important...

I'm with you guys. Let's not allow our anger at Israel's and certian lobbying groups complicity in the denial to poison us with anti-Semitism. It is disturbing that that some Jews would take the side of a fascist nation. But let us also remember that amongst the Armenians population there were traitors who sold us out in the CUP, some Armenians were indeed masons, etc. Nobody forced the Turks and Kurds to do what they did.

[Hovik]

Then it's done, I'm not going to delete the posts because I think it's important others read what was said at the close of this thread... Thank you to all for your input.

P.S. Gavur jan, menk el kez sirum enk