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Turkey's challenge to the Armenians

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  • Turkey's challenge to the Armenians

    Turkey's challenge to the Armenians

    Mehmet Ali Birand Thursday, January 6, 2005

    While I was interviewing Turkish History Institute President Hikmet Özdemir on yesterday's Manşet program, I breathed a sign of relief and said, “Thank God someone is prepared.”

    The PR campaign waged by the Armenians since 1918 has indirectly affected us, regardless of how committed we were to our own version. The international public listened to the Armenians for more than 80 years and at long last believed them. It was included in textbooks and then taught at universities. Finally, the public was sure: “Armenians had faced a genocide committed by Turks.”

    Professor Özdemir said the Armenians had been entangled in a blood feud against Turks since the Ottoman era, throughout the republican age, and noted, with examples, how Turkey had punished those who were found guilty.

    The Turkish History Institute has finished its research, which had started in 2001. A huge campaign will be launched in February.

    Four volumes of documents have been prepared. The allegations made by the Armenians are answered one by one.

    You might remember French Foreign Minister Michel Barnier saying, “Turkey needs to face up to its history,” to which Professor Özdemir replies, “We are facing up to our history, but all those who incited the Armenians should also do the same.” This is also part of the study: showing who was behind the Armenian uprisings. It appears Turkey will now put aside manners and shout out what happened.

    It won't only be the release of documents. For example, Turkey will ask for a retrial for Tehlerian, who was found not guilty after killing Talat Paşa in 1921 in Berlin. No one knows if this will be possible, but they will try and they will prove that a document used in that trial was a fake.

    Another new innovation will be to challenge Armenian intellectuals in television debates.

    It will be the first time Turkey will pose a challenge to the Armenians.

    [HH] How will we explain ourselves to the world?

    Armenians have been waging a battle for the last 75 years. They have brainwashed the international community. They have transformed the process into an entire culture by using tampered photos and fake documents.

    Turkey, meanwhile, inexplicably, was weak. It behaved like it had done something, and was so ashamed that it didn't even want to defend itself. The Armenians were allowed free rein.

    Things will change. Turkey, even though belatedly, has taken the initiative.

    However, the documents alone don't prove anything. The most important matter is publicizing these facts to the world and making them believable.

    That's the most important thing.

    How will we do that?

    Our attempts to make our voice heard have been so flimsy up until now that the state bureaucracy needs work miracles to pull it off.

    Another point to consider is that in addition to documents and promotion, there should also be political initiatives. Such campaigns can produce results only when all these initiatives are combined.

    What Professor Özdemir told me was very encouraging; however, there are still questions in my head about the way the whole enterprise will be coordinated. No matter how effective a campaign the institute wages, without help from all the other state institutions, nothing will come about. It will once again be the case of us talking and no one listening.

    However, this is the final match on the genocide allegations. Additionally, we have lost all the previous games and we know we need to win this one. We can't tolerate any mistakes this time.

  • #2
    Challenge for what?
    We've already stated the findings of the historians. I don't think there is anything left to further discuss. It's like asking us to prove to you the grass is green. Turkey is in denail, and is determined to stay that way!

    Comment


    • #3
      Why do you think there is anything left to further discuss? If you believe something you must not afraid. Last year started meetings with Turkish and Armenian historians in Vienna. But Armenian historians didn't continue meetings and left. Why? Two side let's show their documents, claims. Why don't start meetings in UN? I think it will be best way. This subject must be discuss in UN. I think will be somethings about it as soon. Lets wait and see what will happen.

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by McMas
        Why do you think there is anything left to further discuss? If you believe something you must not afraid. Last year started meetings with Turkish and Armenian historians in Switzerland. But Armenian historians didn't continue meetings and left. Why? Two side let's show their documents, claims. Why don't start meetings in UN? I think it will be best way. This subject must be discuss in UN. I think will be somethings about it as soon. Lets wait and see what will happen.
        We've discussed this for practically 90 years, no use, we aren't getting anywhere! If Turkey is determined to deny it, which has been the case for the past 90 years, there is nothing Armenia or any other nation can do to change that. It's not only something that Armenians agree on, it's been proven by historians world wide; however turkey has its own history as we all know. I personally don't see a point in opening yet ANOTHER debate with turkish historians when in past it's gotten us nowhere.

        Comment


        • #5
          You discussing this for 90 years for yourself. You must discuss with other side not yourself. If you really believe your truths be open, don't afraid. Whatever, i know that will not change anything with my says. Already we will see in near future what will happen.

          PS: I made a correct, last year meetings was in Vienna, Austria not Switzerland.

          Good luck.

          Comment


          • #6
            Are you kidding me? we're discussing it amongst ourselves? yeah sure... We've discussed it with historians throughout the world and it's an accepted fact. The only country who denies it is Turkey and we know the reasons.
            Turkish historians know the truth, they don't want to admit to it. Instead they come up with these ridiculous stories, such as the lates Yusuf Halacoglu's findings on how Armenians killed 500,000 turks but only 80,000 Armenians died and mostly from diseases!! Are you effing kidding me!! How can we discuss something this serious with ridiculous historians such as that Yusuf guy! Only when Turkey is ready to be rational, open minded, and unbiased, then we should consider debating with them. Actually hold on, what am I sayin.... there is nothing to debate on! The facts are out there. It's only a matter of accepting it which at the moment, Turkey is too chicken to do so, therefore I don't see a point in any 'meetings' with turkish historians. I don't know, maybe since Turkey is too eager to join the EU they can finally admit to their acts, who knows...

            However, I'm not the one deciding whether we should have these debates or not. It's up to them. I just want justice to be served, for all those 1.5 million of my people who were tortured and killed. Including my great grandmother's mother and brothers.

            Comment


            • #7
              [QUOTE=McMas]Why you don't want to understand. If you really believe your truths then discuss them in UN or an organisation something like that. Two side and must show their archives. Will not change anything only with speak.
              Even some of Armenians don't believe your says. For example Armenian author Levon Panos Dabagyan. He have a book History of Turkey Armenians. He don't accept to genocide. I just hope that, this subject discuss in UN. Then we will see truths.



              You don't get it do you? I don't think there is use in discussing it when Turkey is determined to keep its denial attitude.

              I'm sorry, but who is this Levon Panos Dabagyan again?? Never heard of him and I couldn't find anything on him on the web. I honestly can care less what he believes, what I care about is the fact that I've personally lost family members there and so did almost every other Armenian I know.

              And how about the turkish famous (yeah this one is actually famoust unlike Levon Panos) author Orhan Pamuk who said that more than one million Armenians were massacred in Ottoman Empire and that Turkey needs to take the responsibility, etc.? Needless to say, he was harshly criticize by Turkey for telling the truth... How about that?

              Comment


              • #8
                Go ahead, show "everything" on YOUR turkish sites, what's there to show? Lies, lies, and more lies? There are plenty of those turkish sites out there with all these fake facts and stories, but don't post them here. People who come to this site are interested and want to learn about the Armenian genocide obviously and I can't have a bunch of turks posting lies and those insulting articles on this site. Yes they're insulting. Why? Because instead of taking responsibility for your past actions, you're attacking us with more lies.

                Don't forget, DENIAL OF A GENOCIDE IS AS BAD AS COMMITTING IT!

                I can't read turkish, so I can't read the site you posted about that book by that Armenian author.


                Here is a GREAT book by the U.S. Ambassador to the Ottoman Empire under Woodrow Wilson from 1913 to 1916. He's an AMERICAN not Armenian, who witnessd everything with his own eyes. Later he wrote about his experience and the tragedy that happened to over one million Armenian citizens of the Ottoman Empire. You don't have to purchase the book, it's all online. It's in English too, so you can read it.

                Ambassador Morgenthau's Story Online


                So what else is it that you asked for? Documents? Sure... Here is a site with many U.S. and British Archieves dated from 1915-1920. (The site I just posted got hacked a year ago by some turkish hackers, isn't that disrespectful?)

                It's not gonna matter how much proof we have. Turks run their "camera" of the world through certain selective mechanisms: intentions, interests, desires, points of view, and biases, all of which work as selective and restrictive filters. Some people have one-track minds. They filter all experience through one point of view, and it is difficult to try to change that perspective. I think you're one of them. So me arguing with you won't get me anywhere.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by McMas
                  Ignorant people can believe your says but if somebody research this will reach all truths. I just saw, you added a new part. ‘’ Armenian Archives
                  Some archives of Armenian related material’’

                  I am glad to see it. But i don’t want to see it as empty. I hope you can add Armenian archives. Maybe Mr. Oskanyan can send you. But i hear that, he didn’t accept to open their archives. But maybe if you want, he can send you. I will be glad if i see somethings.
                  1- As you can see, it's no longer empty!
                  2- Apparently you're misinformed, Armenian archives have always been open, and Turkey has alway had access to them, but Ottoman Empire archives on the other hand have always been unavailable for some reason (hummm I wonder what could that be ) to researchers. So it's funny that you say Oskanyan didn't accept to open archives, again another misinformed Turk.

                  Ottoman archives not open to intellectually honest scrutiny,

                  Archive dispute, BBC News

                  So next time, make sure your information is valid before you make false claims on our site.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by McMas
                    It is nice to be not empty, but why you can't show me all archives…Unfortunately i can see only 9 document. But i can show you offical documents more than thousand. Even i showed you but you scared and deleted quickly them. I showed you lots of offical documents.
                    Learn english buddy, there is a difference between articles and archieves. What you posted were anti-Armenian artilcles and yes I deleted them and will continue to do so.

                    And I'll be adding more documents to the archieves section later on, have some patience...

                    Even i will prove Armenians and some foreigners how made fake documents. Just i want something; don't edit...
                    So you're a pro at making fake documents? wow! You are so typical, first Armenians don't have documents, now their documents are fake? lol get a life.


                    Is there any web site about Armenian Archives? Armenian government have a web site about it?
                    Yes, my above post #11. Apparently you don't even read my posts!



                    And about Oskanyan: Armenia rejects Turkish offer for joint study on ‘genocide’ Read, what did he say. Could you tell me why Mr. Oskanyan rejects Turkey's offer? As i told you before. If you really believe yourself we can discuss it in everytime, in everywhere. Just you must want it. But you are afraid because of you knows realities, you know what will happen. [/img]
                    Refer to my previous posts (#4 and #6 to be exact )

                    I am answering all your questions but why you don't answer me my questions? Even you are deleting my documents i show you. Don't afraid please. As soon you will already accept everything.
                    So what was the question again?


                    We are still waiting Armenian historians to Vienna. But i think they will escape again also this year. Like last year. You know they left to meetings, they didn't continue. Maybe if you show your documents they can join again. Please help them.
                    Again, refer to post #2, #4 and #6...

                    Let's see an US historian what saying about it: US historian rejects Armenian genocide claims
                    I don't really take Turkish Daily seriously, it's been incorrect in reporting incidents before, I'll believe it once I see it from a more reliable source. However, even if what you said is true, we all know turkey and US are allies and US needs Turkey, so I'm seriously not at all surprised.

                    Good luck my friend.
                    I don't need luck.

                    Comment

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