Questions from Stetson University

[pathfinder]

and it is shocking how you can easily categorize the deaths of Azeri people as an unfortunate byproduct of the war!
The Turks and Armenians were at war.

Helpneeded, indeed you need help distinguishing between a war between two armed groups and a genocidal act against an entire unarmed population of a country. Now, go seek help. The library is a good start (unless you live in Turkey).

And the part I made bold is Turkey's (or your) rewritten version of history.

[1.5 million]

Obviously my version of history is different than yours.. ..

Yes it is - different from everyone but your own you mean....enjoy your music and your fantasy worlds...while you can before your false reality comes tumbling down on you...I will promiss lenience and will accept your apologies and try not to laugh at your foolishness...

[Hovik]

Anything else, sir?
Would you like us to kill ourselves all so that you would find the lands returned to you empty? Please let us know!!

Ha, make a land offer to us first. We'll have to get back to you on the suicide part...(j/k) When these lands are liberated Turks living on them should be welcomed to the society. However, an Armenian government will be formed serving the Armenian State which will govern the territory. Equal rights will be given to all inhabitants of the territory, regardless of religion, minority or majority, class or creed. Oh we won't even call you gyavour .

Please, pull yourself together.. and see how ridiculous you are when you make such demands! What nation in its right mind will give up a part of the land?
The perfect world you just described is the main goal of diaspora, and reveals the big lie that all Armenian people want is recognition.. Some people have a very different hidden agenda (not hidden sometimes as in this case)..

Hidden Agendas, big lies, such demands! What an outrage us Armenians present!

Here buddy, here is my hidden agenda. I have a deed to my families house in Sivas that they were kicked out of. I either want full property rights to the house or land, or I want some reparation for it. Is that not fair? How can you be so inhumane. Let me come kick all the "helpneeded" family out of their house wherever that may be, and not expect Help's grandson to come back to me 90 years later and demand compensation for something I was given for free, and he was told to leave with NOTHING! Lets see what you would do... you would just walk away and forget about it right? you wouldn't tell any of your family members about it right? nobody would ever dare to request some sort of compensation for it right? We all know the answer. Don't talk to us with your condescending attitude "How dare us make such demands"? "How dare you"!

And how dare us judge your humanity... you are a sick person - a very sick society...

I feel sorry for everybody who lost lives, whose lives have been destroyed.. But, it is not a one-way street.. As long as you don't express any sorrow for other peoples' sufferings, there is no negotiation, no improvement in relations..

I don't feel sorry for EVERYBODY who lost lives...

I feel sorry for INNOCENTS who lost lives!

Do you feel sorry for the Russians soldiers who were fighting against you on the eastern front? I am sure you don't.

Do you expect us to feel sorry for the Turkish soldiers who lost their lives to russian troops or Armenian's who chose not to be led to the chopping blocks without defending themselves? I would surely hope not.

You Turks are always talking about the casualities on your side. Go and find that 98% of them were military casualities. The 2% that weren't I DO feel sorry for. Were there cases of Armenians who killed innocents - yes there were. I know that, I have read enough books to know that such cases existed. But I also know this:

If we took all the cases of Armenian's harming innocents, and stacked them up against only one gruesome Turkish form of murder and see how they compare, one would see that far more unborn children were sliced from the wombs of pregnant Armenian women than total cases of innocents killed by Armenians.

I think the Talaat Pasha / Soghomon Taleryan case is always a good microcosym to examine:

Soghomon Taleryan watched his young sisters raped and children murdered, his brother butchared by a Turkish axe, and his mother shot. He later killed Talaat Pasha. Do I feel sorry for Talaat Pasha - I don't think I need to answer that question. Killing Talaat Pasha didn't go a millionth of a nano-meter towards evening the score - not even just between Taleryan and Talaat. Had any one of us gone through the experience that Taleryan did, we probably would have done far worse had we gotten our hands on Talaat.

In the same way, consider the losses that these Armenians endured. Their sisters mothers and children raped and butchered, their friends and neighbors locked in churches and burned alive. If a handful of them massacred innocent Turks in an effort to even the score - they made not even a millionth of a nano-meters progress. God rest the souls of all innocents who perished, but dump your retarded justification... it doesn't work. Now I have expressed my sorrow for the suffering of these innocents. As you said, now we can negotiate, so lets start improving our relations... Lets see if help honors his word - lets see if he is willing to negotiate with me...

[Hovik]

Dear Hovik,

You ask for evidence and then say you don't want to see any documents!!! What a travesty of an idea! How will I know that the eyewitnesses you're providing are not fake?

Mix and match words however you choose help - its the Turkish way...

I said "coloring book documents" referring to all the fake looking crap cited on in this forum by denialist Turks. If you can come up with a document that is recognized internationally and present it from a 3rd party then all the power to you. For example, Henry Morgenthau and Jesse Jackson's eyewittness accounts have no Armenian affiliation...

So, again I will say for your brain in which "help IS needed", present documents, but not just Turkish affiliated documents. At least then you would be half way up-to-par with Armenian's Presentation of Genocide evidence.

(By the way, I watched some videos of eyewitnesses (Armenian) and could not help crying even! but,that is just because I am a human being and did not watch the person as an enemySo, I am not saying that they are fake, but there is a possibility! ).. How can you accuse a whole nation based on eyewitnesses and at the same time don't accept any evidence from the other side?

Oh wow, look how sensitive Help is everyone! He cried for Armenians !!!! HAHAHAHA!!!! He was just being "human being" though...

How can I accuse a whole nation based on eyewitnesses:

Get this straight, I accuse ONLY the perpetraters of the Genocide of the act of Genocide - not the whole nation.
And I accuse anyone in the nation denying the genocide (which just so happens to be over 99% of you) of complicity in the Genocide through your denial.

So, a "whole nation" is close, but not accurate reprentation of who I am accusing of what.

Furthermore, in a court, defense provides evidence supporting its claim that it didn't commit a crime (something your defense has done little of). But it is very ligitimate for the prosecution to win a case because of the testimony of eyewitnesses who refute the evidence provided by the defense. So, to answer your question, in countries which support the rule of law the very scenario you are questioning is exactly the status quo.

I have to admit that Turks are not as good as documenting personal stories..So, congratulations to you.. But, if one is not talking about his problems, that doesn't necessarily mean that s/he is not having any! It is true in our every day lives, some people like to talk all day long about their problems, while others prefer to deal with them by themselves and keep silent. And I believe Turkish people are trying to forget the tragedies (and please don't tell me that Turks want to forget because they are the evil and they did not suffer at all)..

I wish the same to you.. I hope you can also try to live the day and look forward and not be stuck with the past..
good luck,

Ha! if you think we wan't your Turkish "documented personal stories" you must have missed what we were talking about all along. I don't think the international or historical communities are very concerned with Armenian personal stories, and of course would be less concerned with the personal stories of the perpetrators side. We have been talking about 3rd party eyewitnesses. See how many international oberservers and other foriegn witnesses you can find that have independent ligitimately published memoirs that assert that there was no such Genocide. If you can find a few by ignorant, stupid, or biased people it probably wouldn't suprise me, but they would never compare to the 100's that assert that the Armenian Genocide took place in the form that is presented yet today.

You are right, Turkish people are "trying to forget the tradgedies" and I am not going to say that it is because of the "evil stuff they did". Afterall they were not the ones who did it, it was their grandparents generation, and more correctly, it was the minority of military and convicts in the janissaries and "special organization" that committed the crimes. The reason modern day turkish people are trying to forget is because they know something happened and that the consequences for what happened are unpleasant. They are guilty of denial, and by trying to forget the whole thing, they are trying to clear themselves of the guilt that they have in denying...

[Hovik]

and it is shocking how you can easily categorize the deaths of Azeri people as an unfortunate byproduct of the war!
The Turks and Armenians were at war. The Armenians were ready to do everything they can to have their own state (even though they did not have the majority anywhere but the city center of Van as far as I know)..

Can someone please remove this ignorant idiot from the forum?

READ MY POST!!! IT HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH VAN! IT HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH INDEPENDENT STATEHOOD. THIS WAS ABOUT THE KHOJALI MASSACRE IN AZERBAIJAN IN THE 1990'S NOT WWI! YOU EVEN REFERENCED AZERIS AND VAN IN THE SAME SENTENCE. NEWS FLASH: THEY ARE ON THE OPPOSITE SIDES OF THE MAP!

I am truly beginning to think Fadix was right about the drugs - there is something mentally malfuntioning in you...

It was not a genocide.. The only difference from the "unfortunate byproduct of war" you just described might the number of people who lost their lives.. So, does it really matter if you kill 1,000 or 100,000 people? Killing one person is enough to go to hell if you ask me..

when it comes to your people dying, it is the worst tragedy in this world. For others it is a byproduct!

and plese remember that you cannot force people to apologize.. Suppose that someday you achieve your goals with the help of international powers, and Turkey apologizes for the events during the Ottoman period.. Do you think the Turkish people will have a better image of Armenians? Do you honestly think that it will help improve the relations between the two nations? Please think about this for a while.. I think I would be quite angry if someone forces me to apologize for something that I think I (i.e. my ancestors) did not commit..

GO READ THE POST, IF YOU STILL HAVE A COMMENT TO POST AFTER YOU UNDERSTAND WHAT THE ___ WE ARE TALKING ABOUT, I WILL BE MISERABLE YET WILLING TO DISCUSS IT WITH YOU.

[Hovik]

Path,
Read helps post in a thread I had started in the news section. Doesn't it sound familiar to the response he gave you?
Also notice how he claimed that he was going to leave, yet he is still disgusting everyone with his presence, as we become guilty of pushing hime "to the other side".

Heres his response to me:

Hovik,

I decided to leave this (and other forums) forum already before I read your comments. Thanks for taking the time to respond to my comments..I have a lot to say of course in response to your reply, but as I said I am leaving..

The only thing I can't help mentioning is that it is very idiotic for you to call Turkey pathetic to close its border. You say Armenia didn't invade the middle of Azerbaijan because everywhere is Armenia, right? So, from the Caspian Sea to Ankara (maybe even more, you define it) is Armenia according to you, isn't it? How can Turkey establish healthy relaions with a neighbor that doesn't recognize its borders? Of course, it only makes a lot of sense for a border, which is not recognized by one party, to be closed.

And you are awfully wrong that there is a mojority of people in Turkey more responsive and understanding to this issue then I am. If you cannot reason with me, then good luck to you! Also, you're not qualified to judge my humanity.. As I said in another forum (I am writing it here to make sure that you read it also), I am leaving this discussion for my own sake, because you're only pushing me to the other side (making me a sheep to my government as you put it). I will listen some Armenian music now and remember the people who suffered (Turks and Armenians) and pray for their souls...

So, even if you want to respond to this, please do not quote from my comments to force me respond to it, because this is the last time I will be talking to you..

all the best,

And here is to you:

very funny Pathfinder,

I don't need any help (helpneeded is a name intended for you, because I honestly think most of the fanatic Armenians need pyschlogical help before any compensation) in that regard..
And Turkey is not a country as you imagine.. I don't live in Turkey right now, but if you ever want to visit Turkey, I will be more than happy to give you a tour to our libraries.. Let me know when you want to go so I will be there to be your guide..

Obviously my version of history is different than yours.. As I said in another post just a minute ago, I have to say goodbye, because I don't think this is helping.. I realized you're only pushing me to the other side (the nationalists side, which I don't like at all).. So, for my own sake, I will leave you guys alone here, so that you can talk among your Armenian fellows how much you suffered.. Now, I will go and listen to some Armenian music (Knar and Arto Tuncboyaciyan) and remember everyone who lost lives, had to leave their homes (both Turks and Armenians) and pray for their souls..

P.S. And again thanks to the adminis
trator of the site for allowing me to post freely..

HAHAHA! And he still won't leave! It is just his way of dodging discussions he has no defense for!