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Originally posted by hitite
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Sad but true. -
this is a very difficult question.Originally posted by hitite View Post
in in fact most nations have their own patriarchs
greeks just want to keep the tradition
note that the pope was italian for 500 years before the polish pope!
its about tradition
the patriarch is greek for the last 1600 years
as for patriarch of Constadinople or istanbul as you call it he is greek and this shouldn't be disputed.
in contrast the patriarch of jerusalem should be for all christians but he is just greek in origin
i think you understand what i mean
the patriarch of constantinople is the national greek patriarch but because of turkey he ceased to be from 1831!
Anyway this is a question between christians.
as for the muslims of greece ,i have answered you, in another thread i think. Search it and find my answer.
they do learn the turkish language ,in contrast the kurds don't.
populations exchanges is indeed sad story but for me what has importance is that at least the greek people are now free. Before they had less rights and were in danger.Comment
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Hellenic-Americans Join 2008 Armenian Genocide Memorial
The Cyprus Action Network of America (CANA), together with the Pan-Pontian Federation USA and CANADA, joined the Armenian Genocide Commemorations in City Hall and in Times Square, New York in remembrance of the Armenian Genocide of 1915 by Turkey.
At the 93rd Commemoration of the Armenian Genocide on April 25, some 10 high-ranking representatives of the Pan- Pontian Federation of USA and Canada came to New York City's City Hall to stand in support of an address by Pan-Pontian General Secretary Dimitris Molohides, grandson of Genocide survivors from Pontus, together with city dignitaries and Armenian representatives. Molohides addressed the Armenians as brothers in the struggle for remembrance. He detailed the murder of Armenians by the Turks and Turkey's crimes against civilization in Pontus in 1919, Constantinople in 1955, in Smyrna in 1922, and Cyprus in 1974, ending with the remark, "Time is up." He called for passage of the Armenian Genocide resolution in Congress. The Pan- Pontian delegation was warmly greeted in the City Hall commemorations, and personally acknowledged by keynote speaker and genocide scholar Professor Henry Theriault, whose presentation also included details on the Pontic Greek Genocide of 1919.
The historic Armenian Genocide Commemorations in Times Square in New York City took place on Sunday, April 27. This year, many Pontians attended, holding banners and flags from Hellas, Cyprus and Pontus. Molohides was seated in the grandstand with Armenian Genocide survivors and their families, elected officials and humanitarian, cultural, religious, educational and community leaders. Distinguished speakers included U.S. Senator Robert Menendez (D-New Jersey); Congressmember Frank Pallone, Jr. (DNew Jersey), co-chair of the Congressional Caucus on Armenian Issues; Carla Garapedian, director of the award-winning documentary "Screamers", which explores the history of reoccurrence and denial of genocides in the 20th and 21st centuries; Mark J. Garagos, an attorney who helped lead groundbreaking federal class action lawsuits against New York Life and other insurance companies for insurance polices issued to Armenians living in Turkey prior to the Armenian Genocide, and Genocide and Holocaust scholar Alex Hinton, PhD, director of the study of genocide and human rights at Rutgers University and vice president of the International Association of Genocide Scholars and Dr. Daniel Jonah Goldhagen, author of Hitler's Willing Executioners. In 2009, Goldhagen will host the PBS documentary "Worse Than War", based on his forthcoming book exploring the general phenomenon of genocide throughout the world. The Commemoration theme was "We Cannot Forget, We Will Not Forget."
Following the groundbreaking move by the International Association of Genocide Scholars (IAGS), which in December 2007, voted overwhelmingly to recognize the genocides inflicted on Assyrian and Greek populations of the Ottoman Empire between 1914 and 1923, CANA joins with the Armenian people in solemn remembrance of the Armenian Genocide of 1915, and reaffirms a commitment by Hellenic- Americans of conscience who, for many years, remain determined to secure full recognition and justice for Turkey's crimes.
The 93rd anniversary in Cyprus was marked by a series of events under the auspices of Cyprus House President Marios Karoyan, who is Armenian.
Vartkes Mahdessian, another Armenian representative at the Cyprus House, declared: "The Armenians will continue their struggle until the final justification, a duty owed to the victims of the genocide. It is time that the political leadership of Turkey found the courage to recognize the crimes the previous Turkish governments committed, justifying the victims of not only the Armenian genocide but of the Greeks, Cypriots, Kurds, Arabs, Pontic Greeks and other peoples, in the hope that it will at some point join the European Union."
To view and download pictures of Hellenic-Americans at the Armenian Genocide commemorations 2008, visit http://cyprus actionnetwork. org/photosofhellenic-americans atarmenian_genocidecommemorations 2008.
The Cyprus Action Network of America (CANA) is a grass roots, not-forprofit movement created to support genuine self-determination and human rights for the people of Cyprus.General Antranik (1865-1927): “I am not a nationalist. I recognize only one nation, the nation of the oppressed.”Comment
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Originally posted by Joseph View Post
Great post Joseph!Here`s some pics of the Armenian Genocide commemorations 2008:
The grand stand at the Times Square Armenian Genocide Commemoration in New York, April 27, 2008.
Molohides (center, in brown jacket, blue shirt) seated in the Grand Stand of dignitaries at the Times Square Armenian Genocide Commemoration in New York, April 27, 2008.Comment
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CANA activists and Pan-Pontian Federation members hold the flags of Hellas, Cyprus and Pontus at the Times Square Armenian Genocide Commemoration in New York, April 27, 2008.Comment
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The 93rd Commemoration of the Armenian Genocideon April 25, 2008 in City Hall, New York. Pan-Pontian Federation USA and CANADA General Secretary Dimitris Molohides spoke at the commemoration , many Pan-Pontian reps attended , featured dignitaries included Councilwoman Melinda Katz of the 29th Council district, shown presenting the New York City proclamation officially recognising the Armenian Genocide.Comment
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Thanks Alexandros!Originally posted by Alexandros View Post
The 93rd Commemoration of the Armenian Genocideon April 25, 2008 in City Hall, New York. Pan-Pontian Federation USA and CANADA General Secretary Dimitris Molohides spoke at the commemoration , many Pan-Pontian reps attended , featured dignitaries included Councilwoman Melinda Katz of the 29th Council district, shown presenting the New York City proclamation officially recognising the Armenian Genocide.General Antranik (1865-1927): “I am not a nationalist. I recognize only one nation, the nation of the oppressed.”Comment
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Bruce- professional shill
Is Mr. Fein talking about Greece?
Aris Anganos - 5/14/2008
The 3/24/08 article by Mr. Bruce Fein entitled “Greek Human Rights Violations against its Turkish Minority in Western Thrace” demonstrates a striking lack of knowledge of the situation on the ground in Greece, particularly over the last 15 years.
Mr. Fein lists himself as a “Resident Scholar” at the Turkish Coalition of America. Unfortunately, he does not seem to have done much scholarly research on the subject because his article contains several inaccuracies and distortions.
What is worse, the reference at the end of the article to the Islamic world can be construed as an attempt to place the minorities’ issue in the context of a “battle of civilizations.” This is not only wrong and obsolete in terms of a modern vision of a multicultural and tolerant world, but also raises questions as to the real motives of the writer.
From a Greek perspective, the aim is to smoothly integrate the members of her Muslim minority – not only persons of Turkish origin – in the political, social, educational, and economic life of the country where they live, namely Greece, while preserving their religious, linguistic, and cultural identity. The aim is definitely not to isolate them in ghettos on the basis of their religious belief!
Regarding the “facts” that the author invokes, let me address them one by one:
1. The term “Muslim minority” stems from the Lausanne Treaty of 1923 and the Agreement on the Exchange of Populations of 1923: not all Muslims of Thrace are of Turkish origin, as the minority also comprises Pomaks and Roma.
The Treaty of Lausanne has been governing the status of the Muslim minority in Thrace since 1923. This has regrettably not been the case in Turkey as far as her minorities are concerned, including the Greek one. Successive Turkish governments have harassed Greek, Armenian, and other minorities to the point of extinction. The once 100,000 strong thriving Greek minority of Istanbul was practically wiped out in the September 1955 pogrom and its aftermath. The cultural and physical abuse of the Armenians is well known and that of the Kurds has recently come to the world’s attention. All these violations and numerous others have been committed by a close ally of the U.S. and a country aspiring to become a member of the European Union.
2. The reference to “salaries” allegedly paid only to Greek Christian families with three children or more is not factually correct. The special allowance is granted to all families of Greek citizens with three or more children, regardless of religion or origin.
3. Mr. Fein refers to people who left the country permanently and lost their citizenship. The applicable Article 19 of the Nationality Code, which provided that any Greek citizen who left the country with no intention of returning lost his or her citizenship, was repealed in 1988. Nowadays, there are less than 30 stateless people residing in Thrace. These people have been granted Special Identity Cards in accordance with the UN Convention of stateless persons and are currently in the process of acquiring Greek citizenship.
4. The Muftis (religious practitioners) as in other countries (Turkey included) are appointed on the basis of a procedure in which prominent personalities, theology professors, and members of the minority, are consulted. In addition to their religious duties they also perform certain administrative and judicial functions in the areas of family and inheritance law. The minority’s religious rights are fully respected and can be exercised with no impediment: apart from the 3 mufti offices, there are 300 mosques and 370 imams in Thrace. Furthermore, in accordance with a newly adopted law, another 240 imams are in the process of being appointed to the Mufti offices.
This policy contrasts with the severe restrictions on the Orthodox Patriarchate in Istanbul, which has been the seat of the Greek Orthodox religion for centuries. The Patriarchate’s Theological School of Halki has been closed and is prohibited from operating. Many of the properties of the Patriarchate have been confiscated without compensation.
5. Mr. Fein claims that the requirement that a political party must receive 3 percent of the vote in the previous election to be included in Parliament is discriminatory. This requirement applies to all political parties. Similar percentages exist in other countries. As a matter of fact, the required percentage in Turkey is 10 percent. It is worth mentioning that the Muslim minority is usually represented in the Greek parliament. Currently, there are two Muslim members of Parliament while there are about 290 Muslims in prefectural and town councils.
6. As for education, education for the members of the minority is provided in 215 primary and 4 secondary minority schools as well as 2 Koranic schools which operate in Thrace, employing around 400 Muslim teachers. Courses are taught equally in Greek and Turkish. Turkish language courses have been introduced, on a pilot basis, in some public high schools, to serve the needs of the members of the minority.
To illustrate the alleged “plight” of the Muslim minority in Thrace, Greece has not only implemented the Treaty of Lausanne obligations, but has taken affirmative measures for the minority’s benefit in the field of education. A quota for the admission of Muslim students to Universities and Higher Technical Schools has been established recently. By 2007, 469 students had benefited from it. Greece has also introduced recently a similar quota for members of the Muslim minority to take part in the examinations for the appointment and employment in the public sector.
The affirmative measures were expanded to the financial situation of the Muslim Foundations in Thrace: legislation has been enacted to exempt them from submitting Tax Declarations on income and land property up to January 1, 2007. Consequently, their accumulated registered debts, fines, and existing mortgages by that date were forgiven. The new law on the Muslim minority charitable foundations, adopted by the Greek Parliament in February 2008, has improved the legal framework governing their operation and provides inter alia, for the election of their Governing Councils.
Reading about the “plundering” of the property of the foundations that Mr. Fein mentions, I cannot help thinking of the situation prevailing in the case of the Greek minority in Turkey, which is supposed to be governed by the very same Treaty of Lausanne: 24 Foundations have been seized, a significant number of properties has been confiscated under various pretexts and in many cases sold to third persons. Mr. Fein might be interested in examining the practices of the Turkish General Directorate of Foundations.
Recalling the Treaty of Lausanne and the Helsinki Final Act principles that the author evokes, one must ask whatever has become of the rights of the Ecumenical Patriarchate based in Istanbul? The harassment of the Patriarchate, the confiscation of its properties and the requirement that the Greek Orthodox Ecumenical Patriarch be a Turkish citizen are literally choking the ancient seat of the Greek Orthodox Church. The parallel prohibition of the functioning of the Orthodox Theological School of Halki thus assures the ultimate demise of the Church in Turkey.
Whatever has become for the rights of minority education for the Greeks in Turkey? Whatever has become of the minority education on the Greek islands of Imvros and Tenedos which were ceded to Turkey in the Treaty of Lausanne because they are at the mouth of the Dardanelles? Or the self administration granted to these two islands by the Treaty of Lausanne? The list of violations of that Treaty by Turkey is very long.
It would be worthwhile having a closer look at these issues and pointing to the real injustices and not brining in notions of “battles.” These notions can only exacerbate issues and create resentment which, I believe, serves neither the interests of Greece nor those of Turkey. Surely, the creation of conflict along religious lines between two major allies is something we would certainly not like to see in the U.S.
Is Mr. Fein nostalgic for mentalities dating back to the dark days of the collapsing Ottoman Empire? Or?General Antranik (1865-1927): “I am not a nationalist. I recognize only one nation, the nation of the oppressed.”Comment
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"THREE GENOCIDES AND ONE GENERAL STRATEGY"
Turkey condemns Greece for commemoration of the victims of Pontic Greek Genocide
Turkish Foreign Ministry severely condemned Greece on May 26 for the "Commemoration day of the victims of Pontic Greek Genocide".
It is mentioned in the statement that the events of the commemoration day of the "so-called" Pontic Genocide organized corresponding to the law adopted by the Greece parliament on February 24, 1994, contradict the spirit of dialogue and cooperation of the two countries.
The statement cites, "We severely condemn that because of the mentioned events our country and its founder Ataturk has become targets of them. We notice with surprise that this approach is incongruous with commonsense as it comes from the misunderstanding of the history. Participation of the members of Greece parliament, leaders of political parties, representatives of local authorities and Greece government in this year’s events evidently shows who support the baseless allegations against our country".
To recall, according to February 24, 1994 decision of the Greece parliament May 19 was proclaimed Day of Pontic Greek Genocide.
What about the commemoration events of the victims of Pontic Genocide this year they started on May 18 with the holy mass in Aya Sofia Church of Thessalonica and lasted a week, among them an event under heading "Three genocides and one general strategy".
By the way, only Turkish Public TV mentioned of the event verbally without touching upon it on the website. For that reason the details of the event are not available. But we suppose that "the genocides of 1915-1923" refer to Armenians, Assyrians and Pontic Greeks, and "one general strategy" assumes the international recognition of those genocides.
By Hakob Chakrian, translated by L.HGeneral Antranik (1865-1927): “I am not a nationalist. I recognize only one nation, the nation of the oppressed.”Comment
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