Question to Turks - regarding governmental legitimacy with minority population

[Zane]

Another thing we should discuss is the legitimacy of majority rule. In "A Shameful Act," and "From Empire to Republic" Akcam repeatedly cites evidence which demonstrates a deliberate policy on behalf of the Ottoman government to settle Muslim refugees from Russia and the Balkans in areas that initially had Armenian majorities. The Chinese are doing the same thing in Tibet, flooding it with Han to cast as undemocratic, calls for self determination in that country. How can anyone consider such actions by the state legitimate, or judge the newly and purposely made minority ill when it protests?

[1.5 million]

Another thing we should discuss is the legitimacy of majority rule. In "A Shameful Act," and "From Empire to Republic" Akcam repeatedly cites evidence which demonstrates a deliberate policy on behalf of the Ottoman government to settle Muslim refugees from Russia and the Balkans in areas that initially had Armenian majorities. The Chinese are doing the same thing in Tibet, flooding it with Han to cast as undemocratic, calls for self determination in that country. How can anyone consider such actions by the state legitimate, or judge the newly and purposely made minority ill when it protests?

Yes this was a well know policy of the Sultanate from perhaps even the 1700s - settling of Turks/Kurds into lands which had been "Armenia" and whose population was initially vastly Armenian - while also encouraging depridations upon the Armenians to in efect drive them out - (don't know exactly when this began - but it started earlier then even the 19th century).

[bell-the-cat]

Akcam repeatedly cites evidence which demonstrates a deliberate policy on behalf of the Ottoman government to settle Muslim refugees from Russia and the Balkans in areas that initially had Armenian majorities.

900 years ago there wasn't a single Kurd living in the parts of Anatolia (mostly the formerly Armenian-populated parts) the Kurds now want to call "Kurdistan".

[hitite]

I'm sure as long as Turkey and Turks keep viciously denying the Armenian Genocide and the one sided predation of the Turks against them you will never get your wish.

And even more then just the disparity of numbers (regarding who killed who) - there is quite a big difference between an organized government pogram aimed to wipe out a nation and the acts of a few bandits and revolutionaries or even deaths from warfare. Think about this just a bit. And Turkish and Kurdish bandits (chettes) and vigilantes killed and terrorized far more Armenians (over the years) then the reverse even apart from the various government induced massacres and such. So who really should be offering and recieving sympathy and understanding here? As long as people like you - who should know better - keep insisting that there is some kind of equality in suffering and in blame - well - obviously you are still too imersed in the Turkish xenophobic forest to truly understand the truths of this issue.

1- ...one sided predation: you must be kidding. Look in the mirror carefully next time and maybe you'll see more than an a-hole. You got your own f..king baggae to carry around.
2- Dont worry. Turks dont wish for any sympathy, they just wouldnt mind if they got it so you might as well shove it up your own.
3- I did not equate the deaths of Armenians to Turks I merely said some millions of Armenians were killed and some thousands of Turks. You attest to this truth yourself anyway so I dont understand your problem. The world has a right and SHOULD mourn for the Armenian dead but when it comes to Turks and muslims you immediately reach to your guns to guard the monopoly you feel you are obliged to share with Jews. I guess you feel that Turks should accept their own attrocities before anybody should feel sorry for the Turk.

And it really is sickening to repeatedly hear your accusations of how Turks are xenophobic and that they are all ridden one sided state education and that they dont know xxxx. Your Turk hating mantras have blinded you and when you read the attitude on this forum it really does look like the Turk has become the Armenian and the Armenian the Turk.

[imported_crusader1492]

1-

And it really is sickening to repeatedly hear your accusations of how Turks are xenophobic and that they are all ridden one sided state education and that they dont know xxxx. Your Turk hating mantras have blinded you and when you read the attitude on this forum it really does look like the Turk has become the Armenian and the Armenian the Turk.

You must be out of you mind or blatantly lieing if you think the Turkish Government has not instilled xenophobia and hatred toward Armenians since the inception of the Turkish Republic.

Every generation in Turkey has been indoctrinated with this institutional mindset. Moreove, if there are people in Turkey that don't subscribe to this mindset, they are the exception and not the rule.

You won't fool anyone here with you baseless and emotional argument concerning 1.5 million's "accusations".

[Gavur]

Turk has become the Armenian and the Armenian the Turk.

It wouldn't be a bad idea to do that at least on Jan. 19th of each year to try to walk in each others shoes.

[hitite]

You must be out of you mind or blatantly lieing if you think the Turkish Government has not instilled xenophobia and hatred toward Armenians since the inception of the Turkish Republic.

Every generation in Turkey has been indoctrinated with this institutional mindset. Moreove, if there are people in Turkey that don't subscribe to this mindset, they are the exception and not the rule.

You won't fool anyone here with you baseless and emotional argument concerning 1.5 million's "accusations".

Well I guess that explains the thousands of turks at hrant dinks funeral and the thousands that couldn't make it.

You guys are so outdated. Just continue living the comfort of your world where the Turk is the idiot who can't think past the government text books he has been fed and the Armenian is the embodiment of all things holy. Is it so difficult to live without the barbarian Turk image fixation?

[imported_crusader1492]

Well I guess that explains the thousands of turks at hrant dinks funeral and the thousands that couldn't make it.

You guys are so outdated. Just continue living the comfort of your world where the Turk is the idiot who can't think past the government text books he has been fed and the Armenian is the embodiment of all things holy. Is it so difficult to live without the barbarian Turk image fixation?

Like I said in my former post, "exeption to the rule".

How many turned out to Hrant's funeral. Maybe 100,000? (That's being generous, btw)

100,000 / 70,000,000 = .0014 of the population.

Even if you extrapolate this miniscule number and add to it the "thousands that couldn't make it" it would still be a small fraction of 1% of the Turkish population.

Moreover, why don't you mention the backlash from these "pro-Hrant" marches:

How about the counter protests in Trabzon (among many other places), full of the finatical nationalism the world is used to seeing in Turkey? "We are TURKS" was the motto of the day.
How about the popular folk singer who wrote a song praising the murder of Hrant? I heard it was a hit.
How about the policemen who proudly posed with the murderer, Ogun Samast?
How about the fact that article 301 was used to charge Hrant's son less than a year after his murder?

etc, etc, etc.

With all that said, if you are not like the vast majority of Turks (i.e. you are not a "barbarian"), then that's just great! But, don't come here and say Armenians are "outdated" to think the opposite...there is too much evidence against your view.

Btw, I thought you would enjoy a coulple of "tributes" to Hrant from some of your countrymen. There are many videos just like them on Youtube:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MWuUoPlgVJ4&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gUPS2b-1eDM

[hitite]

Like I said in my former post, "exeption to the rule".

How many turned out to Hrant's funeral. Maybe 100,000? (That's being generous, btw)

100,000 / 70,000,000 = .0014 of the population.

Even if you extrapolate this miniscule number and add to it the "thousands that couldn't make it" it would still be a small fraction of 1% of the Turkish population.

There really is something wrong with you. So you are saying that if around 150-200,000 people are sympathetic towards Armenians the remaining 69,800,000 are murderous salivating grey wolf supporters?

Moreover, why don't you mention the backlash from these "pro-Hrant" marches:

How about the counter protests in Trabzon (among many other places), full of the finatical nationalism the world is used to seeing in Turkey? "We are TURKS" was the motto of the day.
How about the popular folk singer who wrote a song praising the murder of Hrant? I heard it was a hit.
How about the policemen who proudly posed with the murderer, Ogun Samast?
How about the fact that article 301 was used to charge Hrant's son less than a year after his murder?

etc, etc, etc.

The protests in Trabzon were nowhere near the amount that turned up in Istanbul for Hrant.
That popular folk singer sings Black Sea folk songs and that song was not a hit and the guy is barely popular.
The cops that posed with Ogun were rascist. So what. Does that make every Turk a rascist?
Nobody has been sent to prison for 301 in the last few years, plus 301 is being changed by the govt. beacause many people believe it to be against human rights.

etc. etc.

With all that said, if you are not like the vast majority of Turks (i.e. you are not a "barbarian"), then that's just great

Another rascist Armenian huh..... I knew something was wrong with you. See what I mean when I say you are blinded by years of "hate thy Turk" mantras. You talk about nationalist rascist Turks when you are too stupid to see that you've got your fist up your own rascist arse... You are the type of Armenian that deserves to "feel" the intimate affection of one of those majority Turkish barbarians.

[bell-the-cat]

Another rascist Armenian huh..... I knew something was wrong with you. See what I mean when I say you are blinded by years of "hate thy Turk" mantras. You talk about nationalist rascist Turks when you are too stupid to see that you've got your fist up your own rascist arse... You are the type of Armenian that deserves to "feel" the intimate affection of one of those majority Turkish barbarians.

I don't exactly know where you are coming from, not having followed in detail your previous posts. But as for "Crusader", I think I have accurately profiled him, and those like him, in what I have written recently in the "introduction thread".