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What American Acedemics Think

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  • #1

    What American Acedemics Think

    Attention
    [CENTER] [SIZE=4][COLOR=DarkSlateBlue][B]PEACE AT HOME,PEACE IN THE WORLD![/B] [/COLOR] [/SIZE] [/CENTER]

    [RIGHT][COLOR=Navy][SIZE=4][CENTER]MUSTAFA KEMAL ATATÜRK[/CENTER][/SIZE][/COLOR][/RIGHT]


    [COLOR=DarkOrange][SIZE=6][SIZE=5]THERE IS NO PROBLEM BETWEEN TURKIYE AND ARMEANIA[/SIZE][/SIZE][/COLOR]
    Tags: None
  • #2
    America has yet to recognize the genocide. So what else is new?

    America needs Turkey and has a strong relations with Turkey. Though things are changing a bit. America doesn't need Turkey as much as it did back in 1985, when your article was published. Main reason why the Armenian Genocide bill was just passed in the Committee! We're waiting for the next step now.

    Comment

    • #3
      Originally posted by Tongue
      America has yet to recognize the genocide. So what else is new?

      America needs Turkey and has a strong relations with Turkey. Though things are changing a bit. America doesn't need Turkey as much as it did back in 1985, when your article was published. Main reason why the Armenian Genocide bill was just passed in the Committee! We're waiting for the next step now.
      Tongue, you are mostly wrong about America not recognizing the Genocide. The Federal Govt. has yet to recognize and that is true. But almost 40 states have officially recognized the Armenian Genocide. As for the post from Ramil, that petition is now 20 years old, from 1985. Subsequent to that, both in 1998 and 2000, petitions by over 125 Academics in the U.S. were made to recognize the Armenian Genocide. See http://www.armenian-genocide.org/Aff...on_detail.html

      Moreover, the International Association of Genocide Scholars, which is a U.S. based organization with thousands of academic members worldwide, has acknowledged the Armenian Genocide, and has sent strongly worded statements to both the Federal Govt. and to Turkey to recognize this crime. See http://www.isg-iags.org/

      Also, the 65 people who signed the petition in 1985, 2/3 of them are at Universities who have Ottoman Chairs funded by the Turkish government, and you'll also note how many Turkish names are on that list.

      Ramil, can you show us any recent petitions? Have fun searching!

      Comment

      • #4
        Originally posted by phantom
        Tongue, you are mostly wrong about America not recognizing the Genocide. The Federal Govt. has yet to recognize and that is true. But almost 40 states have officially recognized the Armenian Genocide.
        I know, the majority of the states have recognized the genocide. I was talking bout the United States official position however. I'm very optimistic though, and I think things are about to change. Soon. I watched the live broadcast of the House Commitee's hearing on the Armenian genocide. The bill passed by majority vote, and the only ones that were against it (there was very few of them btw), were literally saying that it's because of the relations the U.S. has with Turkey. Nothing more. I found it funny.... well, at least they were being honest.

        Comment

        • #5
          Old News Of Turkish Money Recivers

          Originally posted by ramilseferov
          SIGNATORIES TO THE STATEMENT ON H.J. RES. 192
          ADDRESSED TO THE MEMBERS OF
          THE U.S. HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES
          It seems that you got us a very old news, those so-called Academics, had been proved for Taking Turkish money ..... Not Armenians who proved that, but the International Assosciation of Genocide Scholars, and The Holocaust And Genocide Institue ..... Take a Look


          Internet on Holocaust and Genocide



          Published by the Institute on the Holocaust and Genocide
          Double Issue 25/26,


          Special Issue on the 75th Anniversary of the Armenian Genocide



          A Follow-up of the Sixty-nine Scholars who Signed an Advertisement
          Questioning the Armenian Genocide

          By Israel W. Charney and Daphna Fromer

          How are we to understand the mind of a rational person who denies the historical authenticity of a major historical tragedy such as the Holocaust or the Armenian genocide? On December 2, 1985, 69 scholars signed an advertisement which appeared in the New York Times, Washington Post, and Washington Times which questioned insidiously the evidence of the Armenian genocide. Instead of denying the occurrence of the genocide outright, the scholars proceeded self-righteously in the name of values of historical and scientific truth to call on the Turkish and other governments to open all the archives so that the facts -- presumably unknown even in their essence as to whether or not there was a state-authorized and executed genocide of the Armenians -- will be ascertained.


          Since its publication, the advertisement has been repeatedly used as proof that "many scholars do not believe there was a genocide of the Armenian people by the Turks," and it appears as a key document in repeated Turkish lobby statements to members of the U.S. Congress.


          In an effort to understand more fully the attitudes of the scholars who signed the advertisement, the Institute on the Holocaust and Genocide in Jerusalem undertook a follow-up study of the signators. In an accompanying statement of "Acknowledgment of Bias,", the Institute conveyed to the scholars that our studies of the subject have previously convinced us of the authenticity of the Armenian genocide, moreover that we have had our own direct experience with the Turkish government efforts to suppress the record in connection with the landmark International Conference on the Holocaust and Genocide in Tel Aviv in 1982.


          The questionnaire inquired into the respondents' knowledge of and opinion about the events that took place at the time of the Armenian genocide, their knowledge of and opinions towards any attempts to suppress and revise the historical record by either the Turks or the Armenians, their knowledge of the uses to which the advertisement has been put and about signators' current attitudes about the advertisement and their participation in it.


          A total of 62 mailings are presumed to have reached their destination -- we failed to find an address for one signators and six other packages were returned as undeliverable. Of these 62, 4 returned empty questionnaires as statements of their refusal to participate, 10 wrote letters -- an number of them detailed and expository -- explaining their refusal to answer the questionnaire and also their attitudes about the subject of the Armenian genocide, while 7 returned completed questionnaires. Altogether, the total of 21 active responses represents a surprisingly high figure of 34% responses (compared to an average expectation of 10% responses to mail questionnaires in the social sciences). As the emotional intensity of the responses show, indications are that not only the questionnaire itself aroused tension but the subject of the advertisement is, as it should be, a focus of no little tension for many signators.


          Some of the information revealed by those who did respond sheds light on the creation of this very clever propaganda technique, an in our judgment provides sufficient evidence on which to discredit the advertisement: Like in an earlier report by the Armenian Assembly of America of its follow-up correspondence with the 69 signators, several respondents indicated that


          a) they had no doubt about the essential truth of the Armenian genocide;



          b) they are fully aware of the Turkish government's intention to falsify the record through censorship, suppression and revision of the facts;


          c) and as to the advertisement itself, that they had not been aware that the Turks would use their call to open the archives to "prove" that there was no Armenian genocide, nor did they know that there would be repeated use of their statement beyond a single advertisement.


          It should be noted that at the same time, all the respondents who commented on the matter were adamant that they received to reward or promise of reward for their participation in the advertisement, and a good number of them were insulted and irate at what they felt were implication of such questions by us.


          What stands out in the responses of these 17 scholars is that many of them go to great pains to explain that their intentions are innocent and good, they are only interested in being responsible academicians, indeed that they want to bring an end to inter-ethnic tensions and help people forget and forgive old-time events that should not be allowed to get in the way of present-day peaceful relationships between peoples. We call this presentation style of "innocence and self-righteousness" and include it in the list of mechanisms of language and propaganda which are the ones we found were being used to disguise and justify the full meaning of the denials.


          The following are the patterns of "thinking defense-mechanisms" which we identified "allow" the scholars to engage in the denial of the genocide:


          1. Innocence and Self-Righteousness. The respondents claim that they only intend to ascertain the truth. Moreover, they do not believe that human beings could have been so evil as the descriptions of the genocide imply. Furthermore, even if many deaths took place a long time ago, it is important to put them aside now and forgive and forget.


          2. Scientificism in the Service of Denial. The position taken is seemingly an innocent one that we do not know enough to know what the facts of history were, and rather than condemning anyone we should await the ultimate decision of research. This is a manipulative misuse of the science-value principle that facts must be proven. The very purpose of science, which is to know, is invoked in order to justify a form of know-nothingness.


          3. Practicality, Pragmatism, and Realpolitik. Here the claim is made that dealing with ancient history is impractical, it will not bring peace to the world in which we live today. One must be realistic and live through realpolitik.


          4. Idea-Linkage Distortion and Time-Sequence Confusion. This is a dishonest linkage of different ideas often out of time sequence to excuse denials of the facts, e.g., current Armenian terrorism against Turks will be exonerated and encouraged if Turkey admits to past events of the Armenian genocide; Turkish national responsibility for the Armenian genocide would constitute "retribution" against innocent present and future grandchildren and great-grandchildren of past perpetrators; the damage that present acknowledgment of the genocide would cause to the real security needs of the U.S. and NATO today does not justify bringing out the past record of long-ago events which are all over.


          5. Indirection, Definitionalism, and Maddening. These are responses which avoid the issue by failing to reply or by going off on tangents about trivial details that avoid the essential issue of whether genocide took place. Definitionalism refers to a form of maddening resistance that is particularly common to academics who enter into definitional battles overwhether or not a given event really fits the pure form of definition of genocide, so that so much energy goes into the definitional struggle that the significance of the event and its enormous human tragedy are virtually written out of existence.


          Denials of genocide are rooted in several mind-phenomena which represent some of the weakest aspects of the development of the human mind and civilization as a whole. For the inability to differentiate between the factual and not-factual certainly stands in opposition to all that Western-world science and development strive for in the ways of truth and knowledge.



          About the authors:

          Israel Charney is Executive Director of the Institute on the Holocaust and Genocide, Jerusalem. He is author of How Can We Commit the Unthinkable? (1982); editor, with Shamai Davidson, of The Book of the International Conference on the Holocaust and Genocide (1983); editor of Toward the Understanding and Prevention of Genocide (1984); and editor of Genocide: A Critical Bibliographic Review.


          Daphna Fromer is a Fellow of the Institute on the Holocaust and Genocide.




          More Information on those that have signed the advertising.



          *The large majority of those that signed the advertisement received grants from institutions founded by the Turkish government.


          ITS, stands for the Turkish Studies Institute, in Washington D.C., honorary chairman, the Turkish Ambassador to the U.S.. The Institute's purpose is to counter Armenian activity at the "academic level" and as a pro-Turkey lobbying group.


          ARIT, stands for the American Research Institute in Turkey.


          The number in ( ) stands for the number of monetary grants by either ITS, or ARIT to the "scholar", and the items between [ ] indicate the total number of grants to the rest of the College or University the "scholars" are affiliated with.









          SCHOLAR



          AFFILIATION

          GRANTS FROM TURKEY

          Abu El Haj, Rifaat

          Cal. St. Univ. Long Beach
          ITS(1)

          Atis, Sara
          Univ. of Wisc. @ Madison
          ITS(1), [ITS(8)]


          Barbir, Karl K.

          Siena Coll. (NY)
          *

          Basgoz,Ilhan

          Indiana Univ.
          ITS(3), ARIT(2), [ITS(8)]

          Bates, Daniel
          Hunter Coll., Univ. of NY

          [ITS(1)]

          Bates, Ulku
          Hunter Coll., Univ. of NY

          ARIT(1), [ITS(1)]

          Bayerle, Gustav

          Indiana Univ.
          ARIT(1), [ITS(8)]

          Bodrogligetti, Andras

          UCLA
          ITS(1), [ITS(4)]

          Burrill, Kathleen
          Columbia University
          ITS(8), ARIT(1), [ITS(9)]


          Childs, Timothy
          SAIS, John Hopkins Univ.

          *

          Daulet, Shafiga

          Univ. of Conn.
          [ITS(4)]

          Davison, Roderic

          Geo. Wash. Univ.
          ARIT(1)

          Denny, Walter

          Univ. of Mass.
          ARIT(1)

          Duben, Alan

          *
          ITS(1), [ITS(6)]

          Ervin, Ellen

          N.Y. Univ.
          ITS(1), [ITS(6)]

          Farah, Caesar

          Univ. of Minn.
          ITS(1)

          Findley, Carter

          Ohio State. Univ.
          ITS(2), ARIT(1), [ITS(3)]

          Finefrock, Michael

          Coll. of Charleston


          Fisher, Alan

          Mich. State Univ.
          ARIT(1), [ITS(1)]

          Fleischer, Cornell

          Wash. Univ, Missouri
          *

          Golden, Peter

          Rutgers Univ.
          *

          Goodrich, Tom

          Indiana Univ. of Penn.
          *

          Gould, Andres

          *
          *

          Griswald, Willaim

          Colo. State Univ.
          ARIT(1)

          Halasi-Kun, Tibor

          Columbia Univ.
          ITS(3), [ITS(10)]

          Hickman, William

          UCAL, Berkeley
          ARIT(1), [ITS(3)]

          Hurewitz, J.C

          Columbia Univ. (ret)
          ITS(10)

          Hymes, John
          Glenville State Col., W. Va.

          *

          Inalcik, Halil

          Univ. of Chicago
          ITS(1), [ARIT(9)]

          Jaeckel, Ralph

          UCLA
          [ITS(4)]

          Jennings, Ronald
          Univ. of Illinois
          ARIT(1), [ITS(3)]


          Kelly, James
          Univ. of Utah
          ITS(2), ARIT(1), [ITS(5)]


          Key, Kerim

          Southeastern Univ.
          *

          Kunt, Metin

          *
          *

          Latimer, Frederick

          Univ. of Utah (ret.)
          *

          Levy, Avigdor

          Brandies Univ.
          ARIT(1), [ITS(7)]

          Lewis, Bernard

          Princeton Univ.
          [ITS(3)]

          Lowry, Heath
          Inst. of Turkish Studies
          ARIT(2)


          McCarthy, Justin

          Univ. of Louisville
          ITS(1), ARIT(1)

          Mandaville, Jon

          Portland State Univ.
          ARIT(1), [ITS(2)]

          Meeker, Michael

          UCAL San Diego
          *

          Murphy, Rhodes

          Columbia Univ.
          ITS(1),ARIT(1),[[ITS(10)]

          Naff, Thomas

          Univ. of Penn.
          [ITS(9)]

          Oberling, Pierre
          Hunter Coll., Univ. of NY

          ITS(1), [ITS(1)]

          Ochsenwald, William

          Va. Polytech. Inst.
          ARIT(1)

          Olson, Robert

          Univ. of Kentucky
          *

          Peachy, William

          Ohio State University
          ARIT(2)

          Quataert, Sonald

          Univ. of Huston
          ITS(2), ARIT(1), [ITS(2)]

          Reed, Howard

          Univ. of Conn.
          ITS(1), [ITS(5)]

          Rustow, Dankart

          City Univ. of NY
          ITS(1)

          Shaw, Ezel Kural
          Cal. State Univ. Northridge

          *

          Shaw, Stanford

          UCLA
          ITS(1), ARIT(2), [ITS(4)]

          Smith, Elaine

          Foreign Service (ret.)
          *

          Smith, Grace

          UCAL, Berkeley
          ITS(1), ARIT(1), [ITS(3)]

          Smith, John Masson

          UCAL, Berkeley
          ARIT(1), [ITS(3)]

          Soucek, Svat

          *
          ARIT(1)

          Staab, Robert

          Univ. of Utah
          [ITS(5)]

          Starr, June

          SUNY Stoneybrook
          *

          Stewart-Robinson, James

          Univ. of Mich.
          [ITS(3)]

          Stoddard, Phllip

          Middle East Institute, (Dir.)
          ITS(3)

          Tachau, Frank

          Univ. of Illinois
          ITS(1), ARIT(2), [ITS(3)]

          Tamkoc, Metin

          Texas Tech
          [ITS(1)]

          Thomas, David

          RI College
          ARIT(2)

          Yenzke, M.L.

          xxxxinson College
          ARIT(1)

          Walker, Warren

          Texas Tech
          [ITS(1)]

          Webster, Walter

          Rutgers Univ.
          *

          Woods, John

          Univ. of Chicago
          [ITS(9)]

          Zilfi, Madeline

          Univ. of Maryland
          ARIT(2)




          Note: This table information’s are taken from, The Middle East Studies Association Bulletins, Directory of American scholars and the Ottoman Studies Directory. These information’s provided are pass dated and not updated for many years.

          Comment

          • #6
            lol Can't believe they're desperate enough to be posting stuff that are 20 years old!! From 1985?? For God's Sake...


            Thank you for sharing that last article maral.

            Comment

            • #7
              Originally posted by ramilseferov
              All of you think America is after you.
              Did you think regarding the USA 's this politics? ...I dont SUPPOSE...

              USA wasting both Türkiye and Armeania,because of its emperialist purposes...

              As you specified,before 20 years ,They said "There is no genocide". Because Türkiye was the greatest ally of USA in the middle-east. We also contributed USA in Iraq war,(1990)
              But now everything have been chenged and there is no alliance or partnership because of downing of Soviet Russia. And they wasted Türkiye...

              Now they are researching new allies in the caucaus and middle east.Yes,you knew,it is Armeania...
              But afterall Armeania and Türkiye will suffer because of USA's emperialist plays.

              so look at my signature;



              THERE IS NO PROBLEM BETWEEN TURKIYE AND ARMEANIA
              REAL PROBLEM IS USA'S DISGUSTING EMPERIALIST PURPOSES

              PLEASE THINK ABOUT IT. I AM SURE YOU WİLL CORRECT ME
              Listen, don't you think we want to believe you? Don't you think we want Turkiye and Armenia to be on good terms and have a positive neighborly and strong relationship? It would be a good thing for both of them. Do you think Armenia wants to have to rely on Russia for protection or Iran for trade? Why is Armenia dependent on these other countries? It's because they can't depend on Turkiye. And why can't they depend on Turkiye, because Turkiye is schizophrenic and full of people like you. On the one hand, you say there is no problem b/w Turkiye and Armenia, and on the other hand your Avatar and hero is a guy who ruthlessly beheaded an innocent Armenian soldier in his sleep at a UN peace function. Maybe if you didn't come here with such an avatar, we would be more apt to take you seriously. But neither can we take you seriously, nor can we take Turkiye seriously until it makes amends about its historical treatment of our people. Until then, we will always worry that Turkiye can try to do again what they did in 1915. Do you understand that?

              Comment

              • #8
                Very nicely put Phantom...

                Comment

                • #9
                  Originally posted by phantom
                  And why can't they depend on Turkiye, because Turkiye is schizophrenic and full of people like you. On the one hand, you say there is no problem b/w Turkiye and Armenia, and on the other hand your Avatar and hero is a guy who ruthlessly beheaded an innocent Armenian soldier in his sleep at a UN peace function.


                  Is that what his Avatar show ?!
                  The Picture of The Killer ?!

                  How Dare you Mr. ramilseferov come with an Avatar like that, in an Armenian House (Forum) !!!!!!!!!!!

                  Comment

                  • #10
                    Originally posted by ramilseferov
                    1- THE ARMEANIAN SOLDIER WAS NOT INNOCENT BECAUSE HE INSULTED TUrK SOLDIERS AND OUR FLAG
                    And You Have THE NERVE TO JUSTIFY the CRIME ??!!!!!!!!!!
                    Classic Turkish aproach, I must say .


                    Originally posted by ramilseferov
                    2-IF THIS IS VERY IMPORTANT,I WILL CHANGE MY AVATAR,BUT SOME ARMEANIAN FRIEND USE AVATAR WHICH IS A MAP EASTERN ANATOLIA IS IN YOUR BORDERS.
                    You better change it yes.

                    And this is an Armenian Forum, REMEMBER THAT. We are in our house, we do whatever we wish to do.


                    Originally posted by ramilseferov
                    3-IN 1925 WE BATTLED AGAINST RUSSIA AND YOU SUPPORTED THEM BY VIRTUE OF THE BETRAYING, YOU WERE MIGRATED TO SOUTH OF ANATOLIA.I ACCEPT MANY ARMEANIANS DİED IN THE EXODUS(r.i.p.),BUT IT WAS NOT GENOCIDE..
                    We'll have a word on that, Later. After you delete that Pic.

                    Comment

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