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Can Turkey Learn Tolerance?

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  • Re: Can Turkey Learn Tolerance?

    Originally posted by Haykakan View Post
    Ok May we will let you judge this then.

    TURKISH COURT RULES NOBEL LAUREATE PAMUK CAN BE SUED FOR COMMENTS

    DPA
    GMT 10-7-2009 19:17:40

    Istanbul - Turkey's Supreme Court of Appeals ruled Wednesday that Nobel
    Laureate Orhan Pamuk can be sued for remarks made several years ago
    about the alleged massacres of Armenians and Kurds in during World
    War One, the semi-official Anatolian Agency reported.

    'Thirty-thousand Kurds and a million Armenians have been killed and
    almost nobody dares to mention that, except for me,' Pamuk was quoted
    as saying in a Swiss magazine in 2005.

    Nationalist activists filed suit against Pamuk, saying his remarks
    had insulted them and demanding compensation.

    Although lower courts in Istanbul have twice rejected the case,
    the higher court ruled that the case should be heard again.

    Pamuk, the widely-acclaimed author of 'Snow' and 'My Name is Red,'
    won the Nobel prize in literature in 2006, the first Turkish author
    to do so.

    After he made his comments in 2005, charges were brought against him
    that he had 'insulted Turkishness.' The charges were later dropped
    for technical reasons.
    My judgment: total bullxxxx!

    Did I learn to be tolerant? Did I pass?

    Comment


    • Re: Can Turkey Learn Tolerance?

      Originally posted by may View Post
      My judgment: total bullxxxx!

      Did I learn to be tolerant? Did I pass?
      When we say "Can Turkey be taught tolerance (or learn tolerance), it is from a premise of not moral superiority of the author, but the inescapable and potentially all inclusively racist and intolerant state and the laws in its constitution, of this joke of a torn country called Turkey-ye.
      If you, or guilt stricken people like you, like to assume its them, this article that started this thread is referring to; all one can say to that is; if the shoe fits , wear it.
      "All truth passes through three stages:
      First, it is ridiculed;
      Second, it is violently opposed; and
      Third, it is accepted as self-evident."

      Arthur Schopenhauer (1788-1860)

      Comment


      • Re: Can Turkey Learn Tolerance?

        Originally posted by may View Post
        My judgment: total bullxxxx!

        Did I learn to be tolerant? Did I pass?
        Yes you passed so now that one down and um lets see now 69999999 more to go.
        Last edited by Haykakan; 10-08-2009, 06:09 PM.
        Hayastan or Bust.

        Comment


        • Re: Can Turkey Learn Tolerance?

          Originally posted by Haykakan View Post
          Yes you passed so now that one down and um lets see now 69999999 more to go.
          I personally know couple more people... You need some update on your records...

          Comment


          • Re: Can Turkey Learn Tolerance?

            Originally posted by Gavur View Post
            When we say "Can Turkey be taught tolerance (or learn tolerance), it is from a premise of not moral superiority of the author, but the inescapable and potentially all inclusively racist and intolerant state and the laws in its constitution, of this joke of a torn country called Turkey-ye.
            If you, or guilt stricken people like you, like to assume its them, this article that started this thread is referring to; all one can say to that is; if the shoe fits , wear it.
            I'd rather prefer not be attributed with any personal -and baseless- judgement of strangers.

            Comment


            • Re: Can Turkey Learn Tolerance?

              Originally posted by may View Post
              I personally know couple more people... You need some update on your records...
              Ill take your word for it.
              69999997 more to go.
              Hayastan or Bust.

              Comment


              • Re: Can Turkey Learn Tolerance?

                Originally posted by may View Post
                I'd rather prefer not be attributed with any personal -and baseless- judgement of strangers.
                I understand, you don't have to like it, I have friends who feel like you and their solution has been not to expose themselves that irk them this way.I also have actually more, friends in and from Turkey that disassociate their ethics and honor away from the state they live in.Because they have come to the conclusion that, one cannot defend the indefensible, providing one has the ethics and the honor.
                "All truth passes through three stages:
                First, it is ridiculed;
                Second, it is violently opposed; and
                Third, it is accepted as self-evident."

                Arthur Schopenhauer (1788-1860)

                Comment


                • Re: Can Turkey Learn Tolerance?


                  Some of the messages spelled out in lights strung between minarets read: "Happy is he who says he is a Turk" and "We owe our gratitude to the army."


                  Mahyas used as provocation to impede government initiative

                  08 October 2009, Thursday

                  ALI ASLAN KILIÇ ANKARA

                  Nationalist messages spelled out in lights strung between minarets illuminated five of İstanbul's historic mosques on Monday and Tuesday night, a move most observers argued was provocative and an attempt to undermine ongoing democratization efforts in Turkey.

                  The messages, called mahyas, in fact reflect the traditional aspect of Ramadan since they are strung between the minarets of mosques only during the holy month to give glad tidings of the arrival of those blessed days. But they were lit on Monday and Tuesday with the intention of “boasting Turkishness” and “expressing confidence in the Turkish military.”

                  Analysts, however, interpreted the move as an attempt to “provoke” as the messages ignored the existence of other ethnicities in the country and came as a show of military power. Among the messages were: “We owe our gratitude to the army,” “How happy is he who calls himself a Turk,” “The country comes first” and “National unity is a must.”

                  The messages drew the indignation of civil groups, which held demonstrations in the streets of İstanbul yesterday. Rıdvan Kaya, the chairman of the Freedom Association (Özgür-Der), termed the nationalist messages in mahyas a source of “ugliness” and “provocation.”

                  “We want authorities to reveal who led to such ugliness. Are they still not aware that such moves aim to drag Turkey into an atmosphere of war? While the government is exerting efforts to settle the Kurdish issue, some are attempting to provoke the people,” Kaya said.

                  The Turkish government, pioneered by the ruling Justice and Development Party (AK Party), has lately been in search of a solution for Turkey's chronic problems through a comprehensive democratization package. With the package, the governing party wishes to solve the decades-old Kurdish question, an aspiration which opposition parties have reacted harshly to. The Republican People's Party (CHP) and the Nationalist Movement Party (MHP) have accused the ruling party of “engaging in projects aimed at dividing the country.” The CHP and the MHP also accuse the AK Party's leader, Recep Tayyip Erdoğan, and other officials of “high treason.”

                  No body or institution has yet claimed responsibility for the controversial mahyas. Today's Zaman asked the Directorate of Religious Affairs about the move, but directorate officials denied responsibility. “We are in control of the mosques, but they are owned by the General Directorate of Foundations. The Directorate of Religious Affairs is fully outside of this mahya issue,” they said.



                  Some of the messages spelled out in lights strung between minarets read: "Happy is he who says he is a Turk" and "We owe our gratitude to the army."


                  The General Directorate of Foundations, however, pointed to the Regional Directorate of Foundations in İstanbul and the İstanbul Governor's Office as responsible bodies in the determination of messages spelled out on mahyas.

                  The director of press and public relations of İstanbul Governor's Office, Nazır Şentürk, said İstanbul Governor Muammer Güler would call a press conference on the mahya controversy. No press conference was called by the time Today's Zaman went to print. The mahyas were spelled out on the occasion of the anniversary of the liberation of İstanbul from occupation by foreign powers following the War of Independence.

                  An AK Party official who wanted to remain anonymous said the messages between the minarets of İstanbul's five historic mosques -- Sultanahmet (Blue Mosque) Camii, Eyüp Sultan Camii, Selimiye Camii, Yeni Camii and Yeni Valide Sultan Camii -- boosted concerns over anti-initiative attempts.

                  “We don't want to make a statement until it is revealed who ordered the messages on the mahyas. Mahyas are used to convey religious messages. They carry messages out of Quranic verses or sayings of the Prophet [Muhammad]. These messages were, however, not related to religion. This is wrong. The fact that no body or institution has so far claimed responsibility for these mahyas shows that everyone is disturbed by them,” the AK Party official noted.

                  Akın Birdal, a pro-Kurdish Democratic Society Party (DTP) deputy, called the mahyas a “display of resistance by the status quo” and urged the government to go ahead with its democratization process.

                  “The process has already kicked off. If the government displays a strong will to complete the process, then no one will dare hinder it. There will also be pro-status quo circles which stand against this process. What is important is the political will, determination and courage to complete the democratization process,” Birdal said. He also called for an investigation into who is responsible for the nationalist mahyas.

                  Officials from the Association of Human Rights and Solidarity for Oppressed Peoples (MAZLUM-DER) said it was out of character to see military slogans hung as messages between minarets. “Such messages contradict the universality of Islam. Mosques do not belong to any nationality or ethnic group, nor are prayers at mosques restricted to one nationality or another or to one ethnicity or another. Nationalist messages in mahyas have drawn the ire of the society,” they said.

                  Evocative of single-party period

                  The content of nationalist mahyas was highly evocative of messages spelled out between minarets throughout Turkey during the period when Turkey was under the control of a single party, the CHP.

                  Mahyas of those times were generally politics-related and primarily dedicated to politicians. Among the examples were “Atatürk,” “Long live İnönü,” and “Happy 20th Anniversary of the Republic.” They also included advice to the population to save money, use Turkish-made goods and make donations to the Red Crescent.

                  Analysts also said the nationalist messages in Tuesday's mahyas brought back memories of banners placed on every corner of İstanbul after the Feb. 28, 1997, unarmed military coup. Now-retired Gen. Çevik Bir, who played a major role in the coup, ordered security forces to bedeck İstanbul streets with banners that read, “Loyalty to our army is a source of honor.” The banners worked as an instrument of intimidation against those who objected to the idea of military coups in politics.

                  Turkey has as of late been witnessing attempts believed to be aiming to increase public anger against the government's Kurdish initiative. A group of soccer fans unfurled banners that read, “Happy is he who says I am a Turk,” during a match between Bursaspor and Diyarbakırspor in late September and accused Diyarbakırspor supporters of backing a terrorist organization and calling on them to leave the country. Analysts argued that the tension came as the latest example of “provocation” and said the nationalist feelings of soccer lovers were abused by political figures who stand against the Kurdish initiative.



                  "Happy is he who says he is a Turk."



                  "National unity is a must."


                  Link

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                  • Re: Can Turkey Learn Tolerance?

                    Those writings getting hard critiques by media and academicians recently.

                    Comment


                    • Re: Can Turkey Learn Tolerance?

                      BÜLENT KENEŞ

                      Fascism on the minaret

                      I was prepared for everything, but not for (secularist and neo-nationalist) groups that oppose all sorts of democratic initiatives and that always side with the status quo, characterized by its antidemocratic defects, and which recently used mosques for their antidemocratic efforts.
                      At a time when Turkey is taking bold steps to tackle its chronic, long-standing and complicated problems, such as the Kurdish issue, the Alevi issue and the Armenian issue, pro-status quo neo-nationalist/secularist and possibly Kemalist groups now sought shelter in mosques in an increasingly tragic state of pity. They went so low as to affix mahyas to İstanbul's historic mosques with fascism-tainted messages on the occasion of the city's Day of Liberation and this incident will be etched in history as proof of the misery of these groups, known for their hostility to religion, mosques and devout people.

                      You must have read in Today's Zaman's headline story yesterday about this. Although the perpetrators were still to be identified, the political messages shown in the mahyas stretched between minarets of several historic mosques are actually proof of what means these proactive, pro-status quo groups may consider justified for their purposes. Due to negligence by the Department of Religious Affairs, which is in charge of mosques, heedlessness by the İstanbul Mufti's Office, indifference by the İstanbul Governor's Office and the fastidious of the General Directorate of Foundations, our historic mosques, whose doors are wide open to all Muslims, regardless of ethnicity, were subjected to such a fascist scandal. The messages, "How happy is he who calls himself a Turk," "We owe our gratitude to the army" and "The country comes first," shown between the minarets of the Süleymaniye Mosque, the Sultanahmet Mosque (Blue Mosque) and the Eyüp Mosque, respectively, have drawn heightened reactions, as expected, from devout Muslims and democrats who are more sensitive and more determined with respect to ethnic fascism.

                      We cannot help but agree with Diyanet-Sen President Ahmet Yıldız, who told the Cihan news agency that Islam is not a religion that belongs exclusively to a certain nation, ethnic group or state, saying: "Islam is a universal religion. Its message is addressed to all of humankind. And places of worship that are symbols of Islam belong to all Muslims. Therefore, a Muslim place of worship should not be decorated with things that praise any specific nation or ethnic group or an institution. Instead, universal messages that are addressed to the entire humanity should be used. Messages relating to institutions may be hung on the relevant institutions. There are many other places to hang these messages, but mosques are not one of them. We regard the hanging of such placards on mosques as a disgrace and improper conduct."

                      As is known, the tradition of decorating mosques with lights during the sacred days and nights of Islam goes back to the early years of Islam. The Ottoman Empire improved this fine and aesthetic tradition particularly starting from the 16th century. Historic mosques in İstanbul, Bursa and Edirne in particular were considered suitable to carry mahyas. These mahyas were created by writing phrases or sentences with light bulbs hung on wires stretched between minarets. These messages included the first verse of Surah al-Fath, "Maşallah" (May God protect you from the evil eye), "Bismillah" (In the name of God), "Leyle-i Kadir” (Night of Power), "Hoşgeldin ya şehri Ramazan" (Welcome, o month of Ramadan) and "On bir ayın sultanı” (King of eleven months) at the beginning of Ramadan and "El-Firak" (Separation) and "Elveda" (Farewell) toward the end of Ramadan. The most grandiose mahyas were affixed to the Süleymaniye Mosque, which now bears the message, "How happy is he who calls himself a Turk."

                      However, later, the Ottomans tended to use social messages as well, including “Hilali Ahmer'i unutma” (Do not forget the Red Crescent) or "Muhacirlere yardım" (Help the immigrants), and during the early years of the republic, the mahyas were increasingly used by the single-party government to disseminate ideological messages. Although it fought against everything connected with religion with its distorted mentality of secularism, the despotic single-party government did not refrain from putting unusual messages in mahyas strung between the minarets of mosques. While excluding religion from social life under the pretext of secularism, it shamelessly transformed religious elements into ideological carriers. During this dark period between 1930 and 1950, mahyas, which are intrinsically religious, were used to convey very many unbelievable messages. The slogans and political messages intended to create a cult of personality, such as "Long Live İnönü," "Atatürk" and "Muslims are Republicans" as well as economic ones, including "Use Domestic Products" and "Save Money."

                      However, mosques are religious places, which makes them universal. Therefore, their doors are open to everyone and they cannot exclude anyone based on ethnicity. They can never be used to disseminate discriminatory messages. Even if all these points are ignored, we still cannot turn a blind eye to this fascist oddness because of the bad memories of Turkey's recent past. The perpetrators should not go unpunished.

                      In the end, all these tragic memories are still alive in the collective memory of this society. Moreover, we still clearly remember that some raving commanders who were ignorant about democracy and pluralism and who felt nostalgic about the despotism of the 1930s had gone too far to order the writing of the message, "Loyalty to the army is our honor," on the façades of many barracks visible to the public during the Feb. 28, 1997, postmodern military coup.

                      Everyone should seriously think about how those who were so ruthless in writing the most militarist slogans on the barracks in the past have the courage to taint minarets with this fascism at a time of successive democratic initiatives.

                      http://www.todayszaman.com/tz-web/co...e-minaret.html
                      Last edited by Army; 10-09-2009, 10:12 AM.

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