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Greek Genocide of Asia Minor

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  • #1

    Greek Genocide of Asia Minor

    First of all I would like to congratulate your nation for your successful effort your genocide to be recognized from the civilized world.For the greeks the armenian genocide is more than a fact.Our grandparents told about those atrocities which are written in every book of greek literature which refers to the specific period.
    Unfortunately the efforts of the greek-anatolian-refugy societies to recognize the greek genocide are not well organized & unity also lacks among them!Not to mention that many greeks,both politicians & civilians prefer to forget that matter in order not to harm our precious greek-turkish friendship,the same time that the human rights of what was left from the greek minority of Constantinoupolis are violated & the orthodox Patriarch is threatened from th turkish nationalists.
    Even the greek Parliament at 1996 was forced from the turkish&american ambassadors to invalidate their decission for recognition of the armenian genocide & at 1999 to also invalidate the subscribed from the greek President of Democracy,draft of law which consecrating a day of national mourning(9/9)for the greek genocide of Asia Minor.

    Chronological the greek genocide took place the period between 1914-1922.Its peaks were at 1917,1919-20 &1922.During the period between 1930-1975,especially 1955 the greek minority of Constantinople was banned from its ancestral homeland & only 2.000 remain now.

    According to the french stistics of 1911 the greeks of Thrace & Asia minor were more than 2.400.000.Up to 1928,1.300.000 refugees came to Greece(50.000 armenians among them),80.000 escape at Russia & 150.000 remained at Constantinople under the protection of the international treaties.What happened with the rest 800.000 greeks of Asia minor?

    Feel free to ask about the greek holocaust of Asia minor or to give your opinions.I'd also like to learn about the armenian populations of the ottoman vilaets,before the genocide.
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  • #2
    Welcome to the Forum Ionas Yasu!
    My paternal grandmother was a greek from Samsun and escaped the genocide of the Pontus greeks there.
    "All truth passes through three stages:
    First, it is ridiculed;
    Second, it is violently opposed; and
    Third, it is accepted as self-evident."

    Arthur Schopenhauer (1788-1860)

    Comment

    • #3
      Thank you Gavur!Your greatgrandmother had the luck & unluck to be one of the 75.000 pontian greeks who escaped at Caucasus & one of the 200.000 pontians who managed to escape death-marsh in order to tell the story & be the last of their nation.My greatgrandmother was also lucky enough to escape captivity at Smyrna(Izmir) because she spoke english & some american mariners thought of her being english or american & they prevent her turkish persecutors from captivating her.My greatgrandparent marched as an amele tamburu prisoner from Afion karahisar up to Adana & he finaly survived.
      Actualy the pontian greeks have the most well organized greek-anatolian societies (globally) & were the first in who had stir up the genocide matter in Greece.The bad in the whole thing is that they deny to cooperate with the rest greek anatolian societies in order to prove & convince united the international public opinion for the Holocaust

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      • #4
        Originally posted by Ionas
        First of all I would like to congratulate your nation for your successful effort your genocide to be recognized from the civilized world.For the greeks the armenian genocide is more than a fact.Our grandparents told about those atrocities which are written in every book of greek literature which refers to the specific period.
        Unfortunately the efforts of the greek-anatolian-refugy societies to recognize the greek genocide are not well organized & unity also lacks among them!Not to mention that many greeks,both politicians & civilians prefer to forget that matter in order not to harm our precious greek-turkish friendship,the same time that the human rights of what was left from the greek minority of Constantinoupolis are violated & the orthodox Patriarch is threatened from th turkish nationalists.
        Even the greek Parliament at 1996 was forced from the turkish&american ambassadors to invalidate their decission for recognition of the armenian genocide & at 1999 to also invalidate the subscribed from the greek President of Democracy,draft of law which consecrating a day of national mourning(9/9)for the greek genocide of Asia Minor.

        Chronological the greek genocide took place the period between 1914-1922.Its peaks were at 1917,1919-20 &1922.During the period between 1930-1975,especially 1955 the greek minority of Constantinople was banned from its ancestral homeland & only 2.000 remain now.

        According to the french stistics of 1911 the greeks of Thrace & Asia minor were more than 2.400.000.Up to 1928,1.300.000 refugees came to Greece(50.000 armenians among them),80.000 escape at Russia & 150.000 remained at Constantinople under the protection of the international treaties.What happened with the rest 800.000 greeks of Asia minor?

        Feel free to ask about the greek holocaust of Asia minor or to give your opinions.I'd also like to learn about the armenian populations of the ottoman vilaets,before the genocide.
        Really? And its peaks were 1917, 1919-1922? Exactly when Greece was occupying entire Western Turkey with 400.000 troops. And exactly after 30 November 1918 when Treaty of Mondros disarmed the defeated Ottoman army?

        Here are some reading suggestion about the matter, and I share my personal family history later on if you wish:

        Crescent & Star by Stephen Kinzer (American)
        The Turks Today by Andrew Mango (British)
        The Balkan Wars by Andre Gerolymatos (Greek-Canadian!)

        They all describe the attrocities of invading Greek soldiers, and of the Anatolian & Pontian Greeks who volunteered to join the Greek Army. Especially horrifying are the massacres in Afyon-Karahisar, Ayvalik, Manisa, Salihli, Odemis, Tire and Aydin.

        You also include your nonsense number of 2.400.000 Greeks in Thrace and Asia minor as of 1911, 800.000 of them being unaccounted for! The first blow to your miscalculation comes from the books which I mentioned above, plus ANY history book dealing with that matter, regarding the number of Greeks who immigrated to Greece. And their numbers are not 1.3 million, but between 1.5-1.6 million. It is ugly to participate in your numbers game, but here the number of your 'unaccounted' Greeks drop to 500-600 thousand.

        Are you not aware, for God's sake, that Ottomans lost entire Macedonia (Western Thrace, Kavala, up to Thessaloniki) to Greece in 1913? Could it be that the majority of these 800.000 (actually 500-600.000) people became citizens of newly expanded Greece? Obviously for the Greeks who were living in Macedonia & Western Thrace, they stopped overnight being Ottoman citizens and became Greek citizens, because of the fact that these lands became Greek in 1913! Or did Greece occupy & gain Macedonia even though there was not one single Greek living in Macedonia?

        Good luck in your indoctrinated & baseless propaganda war against Turkey! But do not forget to add more credibility to your silly numbers game.

        Comment

        • #5
          Turks are never able to face their ugly history

          They invade Armenia, rape, pillage, plunder, enslave and subjugate them for centuries, have them build their "empire", then get rid of them by wiping them off the face of their homeland, call it "Eastern Anatolia" and blame the victims for the Genocide.

          They do more or less the same things with Greeks and Assyrians, then call the homeland of the Greeks "Western Turkey" and complain that Greeks have "occupied" Constantinople!!!!!

          As far as the Assyrians are concerned, dear Ionas, it seems they are even worse off because they do not have a state (however small) at all.

          Why are the Turks so self-righteous?

          I have asked this dozens of times but they won't answer.
          Four things denialist Turks do when they are confronted with facts:

          I. They change the subject [SIZE="1"](e.g. they copy/paste tons of garbage to divert attention).[/SIZE]
          II. They project [SIZE="1"](e.g. they replace "Turk" with "Armenian" and vice versa and they regurgitate Armenian history).[/SIZE]
          III. They offend [SIZE="1"](e.g. they cuss, threaten and/or mock).[/SIZE]
          IV. They shut up and say nothing.

          [URL="http://b.imagehost.org/download/0689/azerbaijan-real-fake-absurd.pdf"][COLOR="Red"]A country named Azerbaijan north of the Arax River [B]NEVER[/B] existed before 1918[/COLOR][/URL]

          Comment

          • #6
            Originally posted by Turanist
            Ionas.

            Why is Greece not even recognise this?
            Why is not so-called republic of Cyprus recognise this?
            Why is not even Armenia recognise this?
            Why is no one recognise this?
            Why you forgetting that over 300,000 Greeks emmigrated back to Greece after USSR colapsed? also Georgia still has big Greek population.


            Why is no International Association of Genocide Scholars (IAGS) recognise genocide?

            Nearly all historians on the subject, eyewitnesses, nations (particularly those who were involved with Turkey during the time ie. Germany) and associations (INCLUDING: International Association of Genocide Scholars): Recognize the Armenian Genocide!!!

            And what? It's still not good enough for you. Do all of those criteria cause you to recognize that the Armenian Genocide took place? If not, then it still wouldn't make you realize that a Genocide of the Greeks took place - so why do you bring it up?

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            • #7
              Originally posted by Hovik

              Nearly all historians on the subject, eyewitnesses, nations (particularly those who were involved with Turkey during the time ie. Germany) and associations (INCLUDING: International Association of Genocide Scholars): Recognize the Armenian Genocide!!!

              And what? It's still not good enough for you. Do all of those criteria cause you to recognize that the Armenian Genocide took place? If not, then it still wouldn't make you realize that a Genocide of the Greeks took place - so why do you bring it up?
              Hovik, please check my postings regarding my opinion about the Armenian genocide, and my posting on this thread with historical facts countering this fictitious genocide. In case you don't bother to do so, let me try to summarize the difference in two sentences:

              THERE IS NOT ONE SINGLE HISTORY BOOK WHICH DISPUTES THE FACY THAT THE MAJORITY ANATOLIAN AND PONTIAN GREEKS (MALES) JOINED THE GREEK ARMY WHICH OCCUPIED WESTERN TURKEY BETWEEN 1919-1922. DENYING OR IGNORING THIS IS AN INSULT TO ARMENIANS WHO REMAINED, TO A GREAT EXTENT, LOYAL TO OTTOMAN EMPIRE.

              Comment

              • #8
                Originally posted by Vogelgrippe
                Hovik, please check my postings regarding my opinion about the Armenian genocide, and my posting on this thread with historical facts countering this fictitious genocide. In case you don't bother to do so, let me try to summarize the difference in two sentences:

                THERE IS NOT ONE SINGLE HISTORY BOOK WHICH DISPUTES THE FACY THAT THE MAJORITY ANATOLIAN AND PONTIAN GREEKS (MALES) JOINED THE GREEK ARMY WHICH OCCUPIED WESTERN TURKEY BETWEEN 1919-1922. DENYING OR IGNORING THIS IS AN INSULT TO ARMENIANS WHO REMAINED, TO A GREAT EXTENT, LOYAL TO OTTOMAN EMPIRE.
                Vogel,
                your response has nothing to do with my post to Turanist, or the reasoning for it. Please read and understand the topic before posting. I was not arguing whether or not a Greek Genocide happened, I was simply pointing out how ironic it is that Turanist implys that since there isn't recognition (by governments, experts, IAGS) there a genocide didn't occur, yet the Armenian Genocide is recognized by all of those and Turanist still doesn't believe in it - so there is no point in bringing it up. You're barking up the wrong tree pal...

                Comment

                • #9
                  Originally posted by Hovik
                  Vogel,
                  your response has nothing to do with my post to Turanist, or the reasoning for it. Please read and understand the topic before posting. I was not arguing whether or not a Greek Genocide happened, I was simply pointing out how ironic it is that Turanist implys that since there isn't recognition (by governments, experts, IAGS) there a genocide didn't occur, yet the Armenian Genocide is recognized by all of those and Turanist still doesn't believe in it - so there is no point in bringing it up. You're barking up the wrong tree pal...
                  Hovik, on this thread, you were the only one who wrote anything which made sense according to my opinion. Therefore I only bothered to reply to you. If I had the slightest hope that they would understand, I would point my postings to them as well. Sorry if you took it as an insult

                  Still, Turanist's self-contradicting response doesn't change the fact that Iona's claim is a blatant, baseless propaganda. I hope I am clear enough this time.

                  Comment

                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Vogelgrippe
                    Hovik, on this thread, you were the only one who wrote anything which made sense according to my opinion. Therefore I only bothered to reply to you. If I had the slightest hope that they would understand, I would point my postings to them as well. Sorry if you took it as an insult
                    I didn't take it as an insult at all - didn't say so, and didn't imply so... just wanted you to be sure you knew what we were discussing before jumping in with an off-topic post.

                    Originally posted by Vogelgrippe
                    Still, Turanist's self-contradicting response doesn't change the fact that Iona's claim is a blatant, baseless propaganda. I hope I am clear enough this time.
                    Well, you are entitled to your opinion. I am not going to express my opinion on the existence or non-existence of a Genocide of Greeks. You are welcome to take that part up with Iona!

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