ASALA:Was it really necessary?

[Kharpert]

Krunchy, did you post here for the entire purpose of spiting me? It's hard enough trying to make a point here without you throwing a tantrum over basic vocabulary. Here's a tip: the English language has these magical things called synonyms so that words that sound different can mean the same thing.

[maral_m79]

Harput-

I am talking about civil relations, not state to state relations at this moment.
In terms of trade TUrkey does not have much to gain, Armenia has a lot, but even this is not important, my main point is the relations will serve to stabilty in the region. The region has a potential to erupt. The dollars entering to Turkish government is nothing, the trade volume between TUrkey and Armenia is not high for Turkey. And at this moment majority of of the things are coming from TUrkey anyways from expensive means,am I wrong? I have seen photos from Armenia, I have seen the goods of the "Malatya Pazari". Refrigrators, TVs, washing machines etc are coming from TUrkey from GEorgia, and they are coming from 3rd parties. That money is already entering Turkish pocket, you may call. Economic relations are important just to serve for stabilty in the region thats why its important

Turkey does not see Armenia as threat Armenia can not be a Threat given the size and power. Turkish autorities are well aware of it. Turkey's main concern is stabilty in her neighbourhood. Turkey supports stabilty in Middle East, Caucusia and Balkans. Turkish military even initiated a military cooportaion with Greece to intervene problems in the Balkans togather. I dont think Turkish stance would be the different for Armenia.
Obviously there is barrier of mistrust. We should find ways to get over it first.

Civil relations between Turks and Armenians are not possible with a denial backgroud ... I for one, can't shake hands with you when you call me a liar, because if you think that there was no Armenian Genocide then you think that what I am saying is a lie.... This is why we can not be firends on the basis of denial ....

And as far as the Republic of Armenian is concerned, the recognition of the Armenian Genocide by Turkey, IS A NATIONAL SECURITY ISSUE, because if Turkey still refuse to acknowledge the Genocide of 1915, and tries to Justify it, that means that Turkey will not hesitate to commit yet another Genocide!!

[Krunchy]

Krunchy, did you post here for the entire purpose of spiting me? It's hard enough trying to make a point here without you throwing a tantrum over basic vocabulary. Here's a tip: the English language has these magical things called synonyms so that words that sound different can mean the same thing.

Who do you think you're kidding?

The words DENIAL and REVISIONISM are not synonyms, not at all. They are entirely different concepts with entirely different meanings.

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Main Entry: de·ni·al
Pronunciation: di-'nI(-&)l, dE-
Function: noun
1 : refusal to satisfy a request or desire
2 a (1) : refusal to admit the truth or reality (as of a statement or charge) (2) : assertion that an allegation is false b : refusal to acknowledge a person or a thing : DISAVOWAL
3 : the opposing by the defendant of an allegation of the opposite party in a lawsuit
4 : SELF-DENIAL
5 : negation in logic
6 : a psychological defense mechanism in which confrontation with a personal problem or with reality is avoided by denying the existence of the problem or reality

Synonyms contradiction, disallowance, disavowal, disclaimer, negation, rejection, repudiation

revisionism
One entry found for revisionism.
Main Entry: re·vi·sion·ism
Pronunciation: ri-'vi-zh&-"ni-z&m
Function: noun
1 : a movement in revolutionary Marxian socialism favoring an evolutionary rather than a revolutionary spirit
2 : advocacy of revision (as of a doctrine or policy or in historical analysis)
- re·vi·sion·ist /-nist/ noun or adjective

Synonyms: None found

revision

n 1: the act of revising or altering (involving reconsideration and modification); "it would require a drastic revision of his opinion" [syn: alteration] 2: the act of rewriting something [syn: revisal, revise, rescript] 3: something that has been written again; "the rewrite was much better" [syn: rewrite, rescript]

1. The act or process of revising.
2. A revised or new version, as of a book or other written material.

[maral_m79]

I think what we differ is you are (I mean you not all Armenians) generalizing everythng to each and every Turkish citizen. What I was talking about is the relation between avarage people, be it cultural, or economic between companies etc etc. You have the feeling that you are dealing with Turkish state when you are even talking with a Turk.
If you wanna reach dead end thats fine. Erdogan's government is among the best in terms of reaching out to Armenia and Armenians. Instead of utilizing this, you are trying to find something inorder to accuse him and his government. He even wanted to speak with some Diaspora leaders. I am not saying Turkey is doing its best to reach out Armenians, but you and people like you have to start seperating average person with a govermental officer.

And please stop that Armenians are doing their best to reach Turks but barbar racist Turks refuse it. It is not the case. Around 30,000 Armenian citizens work and earn their living from Turkey. Turkish government knows this,a nd it wont be hard to block those people entering Turkey working illegal. You are forcing yourself not to see any positive things about Turks or Turkey, and everything about Turks is uniform in your eyes, Meral. Life is not black and white.

I was recommending you that if you (now I am generalizing to all Armenians) can build NGO, or civil relations with communties or societies in Turkey, you will have the chance to tell about yourselves and your agony easily. I was recommending that it will be more fruitful for you guys and be more productive comapred with spending decades of decades and millions of millions of dollars and torturing your nerves by hating what Turkey is doing.
Take it or leave it approach will not help you, thats what I am saying.

TurQ,

I have nothing against individual Turks, I don't hate them even though I'm not a big fan too. I don't consider the Turk, any Turk as my enemy... that's totally not the case. You need to understand that even if some Armenians are angry( I don't say hate) with Turks, they don't mean the person but the beliefe....

The indifference of Turks toward matters of Armenians are the obstacle in the way of communication between the two... Turks need to understand that their history book have missing chapters, one of which was the Armenian Genocide, I don't blame the regular Turk for not knowing about that, or for blindly follow their national pride in refusing to listen to what Armenians are saying.... I don't blame you for not being sure about the Armenian Genocide although you can find tons of documents that prove it without doubt, and I certainly don't hate you for that...

What I do want to explain to you is that, I (as a person) can not accept to compromise... maybe I see things as black an white, because I clearly can see the truth that you still see in gray!

Armenian Genocide of 1915/16 is a Historical Fact. It might hurt you or other Turks to know that, I'm sure... But regardless of what your national pride make you think, that Historical Fact remain as it is... therefore, you need to think outside the box that your government put you in, you need to have your own mind, you need to dig facts for yourself and decide for yourself ...


Why you still don't see the Truth TurQ ?
We are communicating here, and you were around for few months and you still refuse to see the facts, Why is that ?
Do you think that Turko-Armenian dialoug will be fruitfull ? Then how come your dialoug with the Armenians , here and in this forum did not make any difference ? Neither you managed to convince us with anything nor you managed to open your eyes to the facts that we are proving !

What do you still need the dialoug for?! Don't you think that it's just a waste of time?

honestely TurQ, why can't you see the truth yet? Tell me !

[imported_RUDO]

If you ask me ... I don't think it was his own decision!!

I mean, it is just lame to think that an operation to assasinate "THE POP" could be planned and carried out by only one man ....

We are talking here about an INTERNATIONAL FIGURE ... not a normal person who pass by you everyday in his way to work !!!

Of course Agca was ORDERED and HELPED in his assasination attempt ... That was not a One Man Work!!

I agree with you.I wrote that sentence because I think he was given mission by turkish gladio and he was helped by a lot of mafias.

[imported_RUDO]

Kharpert young friend, I just looked at the poll stats, it seems like you are in bad company.

Why?Because Kharpert voted NO?

[imported_RUDO]

We should get rid of our national attidues.Or we will be racists arguing all the time.

[imported_RUDO]

TurQ,

I have nothing against individual Turks, I don't hate them even though I'm not a big fan too. I don't consider the Turk, any Turk as my enemy... that's totally not the case. You need to understand that even if some Armenians are angry( I don't say hate) with Turks, they don't mean the person but the beliefe....

The indifference of Turks toward matters of Armenians are the obstacle in the way of communication between the two... Turks need to understand that their history book have missing chapters, one of which was the Armenian Genocide, I don't blame the regular Turk for not knowing about that, or for blindly follow their national pride in refusing to listen to what Armenians are saying.... I don't blame you for not being sure about the Armenian Genocide although you can find tons of documents that prove it without doubt, and I certainly don't hate you for that...

What I do want to explain to you is that, I (as a person) can not accept to compromise... maybe I see things as black an white, because I clearly can see the truth that you still see in gray!

Armenian Genocide of 1915/16 is a Historical Fact. It might hurt you or other Turks to know that, I'm sure... But regardless of what your national pride make you think, that Historical Fact remain as it is... therefore, you need to think outside the box that your government put you in, you need to have your own mind, you need to dig facts for yourself and decide for yourself ...


Why you still don't see the Truth TurQ ?
We are communicating here, and you were around for few months and you still refuse to see the facts, Why is that ?
Do you think that Turko-Armenian dialoug will be fruitfull ? Then how come your dialoug with the Armenians , here and in this forum did not make any difference ? Neither you managed to convince us with anything nor you managed to open your eyes to the facts that we are proving !

What do you still need the dialoug for?! Don't you think that it's just a waste of time?

honestely TurQ, why can't you see the truth yet? Tell me !

Good work!I think TurQ has got his or her lesson!!!(from you)

[Kharpert]

Krunchy, let's go back to what I said:

a larger national revenue, but a weaker stance in the face of historical revisionism

If Armenia let's go of its Genocide claims, then Denialism will claim victory and history will be revised in favor of Turkey. Denialism is a subset of revisionism. Everyone else understood that. Now that I've made my point perfectly clear, do not bring up this nonsense again.

[Krunchy]

Krunchy, let's go back to what I said:

If Armenia let's go of its Genocide claims, then Denialism will claim victory and history will be revised in favor of Turkey. Denialism is a subset of revisionism. Everyone else understood that. Now that I've made my point perfectly clear, do not bring up this nonsense again.

Where did you get that horse manure? Nizkor?

Denialism is denialism, it is not a subset of NOTHING. It makes me sick when Armenians try to parrot and mimick jews talking about their fairy tales. Don't do it.

It is obvious ALL of your arguments are canned arguments and you are totally and completely unable to think, much less speak, for yourself. Frankly, we don't need people incapable of their own throughts or words on our side. You do more harm than good.