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Orhan Pamuk:Hero or Traitor

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  • #21
    Originally posted by TurQ
    This is irrelevant:
    When was the last time that you were in Turkey? I mean at what age did you leave? Did you have same kind of feelings when you were living in Istanbul?
    Did you feel discriminated or feel the otherness while you were living in Istanbul? Does your mother and father or siblings(if you have any) feel the same or close to how you feel in general about Turks and Armenian relations?
    May be it sounds meaningless but I am wondering if as the generations pass people feel more distanced or not( I mean those who live outside Turkey).


    There was a series of series published in Radikal news paper about being Armenian in Turkey and in general Armenians of Turkey. Did you read it?
    hahaha - I know a few Turks who are neither Armenian nor fully Turkish...and they have some incredible and amazing stories of discrimination - official (even to the point of loss of citizenship and exile) and otherwise...so please don't pretend that this is not so...

    Comment

    • #22
      Sounds like another consparacy theorie to me the sort that can be found in any Turkish cofeehouse
      "All truth passes through three stages:
      First, it is ridiculed;
      Second, it is violently opposed; and
      Third, it is accepted as self-evident."

      Arthur Schopenhauer (1788-1860)

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      • #23
        He is a hero because as a Turk he has the balls to admit to what really happened, unlike most of them. If there was an option to call him "Dasshakhleh" a would've chose that one

        Comment

        • #24
          If for certain people coward ramil safarov is a hero, obviously they won’t consider Orhan Pamuk as hero

          Comment

          • #25
            Do not waste your time ...

            Originally posted by TurQ
            This is irrelevant:
            When was the last time that you were in Turkey? I mean at what age did you leave? Did you have same kind of feelings when you were living in Istanbul?
            Did you feel discriminated or feel the otherness while you were living in Istanbul? Does your mother and father or siblings(if you have any) feel the same or close to how you feel in general about Turks and Armenian relations?
            May be it sounds meaningless but I am wondering if as the generations pass people feel more distanced or not( I mean those who live outside Turkey).


            There was a series of series published in Radikal news paper about being Armenian in Turkey and in general Armenians of Turkey. Did you read it?

            Oh come on TurQ .. Who do you think you're kidding here ???

            You people are living in a Huge lie, you have been lied to for a long time ... If you are aware of it or not that's not our problem really... Your government don't know that it's violating simplest Human rights, maybe because it has no idea what are the Human Rights...

            Will you please stopp the show business!!! And for once start admitting that Turkey isn't the heaven on earth ! You won't "save" your people by insisting denial... And Armenian Genocide won't stop haunting you. So in my opinion, the sooner you stop this meaningless denial and recognize the Armeinan Genocide, the lesser will be the damages that you'll have to go through !!!

            Each year pass, will increase the damage you'll face !! The more you deny, the more your cridibilty will damdge in front of your people and International community .... the longer it will take you to recognize the Armeinan Genocide, the more amount of repearation you'll have to pay ... The more of our cultural heratige will be damaged thus the more repareation you'll have to make.

            Time is NOT in you favour ... That's what you still don't get. And Armenians will not wake up one day and decide that they will forgive you and drop their case ... It might only get worse with time, specially if Armeinans feel that they are helpless and despreat!!!


            You can read this scholarly analysis about Turkey for a change ...ARMENIANS IN TURKEY TODAY by Dr. Tessa Hofmann !!

            Comment

            • #26
              Originally posted by elendil
              He is not a hero or a traitor. He is a coward, not because he said "30.000 Kurds and 1 million Armenians killed in this country" but rather he did not participate into discussions in TV channels that he was invited to represent his case. The idiot turned his back to the people to whom he is lecturing about past and thus posseses a responsiblity. If you wont talk with Turkish people about this, what is the point making a claim and running away with a few foreign diplomats? Who will listen to you in that way? What good such an action will make? All the things he has said and done, has promoted his popularity in west nothing more....
              I think he has prefered his books to gain popularity not sily talk shows.
              Do you think he can gain popularity by silly talk shows?
              He has used books to share his thoughts.

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              • #27
                Originally posted by maral_m79
                Oh come on TurQ .. Who do you think you're kidding here ???

                You people are living in a Huge lie, you have been lied to for a long time ... If you are aware of it or not that's not our problem really... Your government don't know that it's violating simplest Human rights, maybe because it has no idea what are the Human Rights...

                Will you please stopp the show business!!! And for once start admitting that Turkey isn't the heaven on earth ! You won't "save" your people by insisting denial... And Armenian Genocide won't stop haunting you. So in my opinion, the sooner you stop this meaningless denial and recognize the Armeinan Genocide, the lesser will be the damages that you'll have to go through !!!

                Each year pass, will increase the damage you'll face !! The more you deny, the more your cridibilty will damdge in front of your people and International community .... the longer it will take you to recognize the Armeinan Genocide, the more amount of repearation you'll have to pay ... The more of our cultural heratige will be damaged thus the more repareation you'll have to make.

                Time is NOT in you favour ... That's what you still don't get. And Armenians will not wake up one day and decide that they will forgive you and drop their case ... It might only get worse with time, specially if Armeinans feel that they are helpless and despreat!!!


                You can read this scholarly analysis about Turkey for a change ...ARMENIANS IN TURKEY TODAY by Dr. Tessa Hofmann !!
                I agree with you!!!A good lesson for TurQ!!!

                Comment

                • #28
                  Since I have read Tessa Hoffmans’s claim concerning about Gas Chambers made by Turks for Armenians in Trabzon, I realized that every westerner writer is not trustworthy. Even if unconciously, they, of course, have the ability of liying due to some ideas of delirium. Tessa Hoffmann most probably have felt ashamed of Europe’s racist genocidal past and looking for a partner from East to relieve the trouble. A kind of person confessing for calm.

                  I considered on that many westerner author, historians etc., in order to prevent their civilisation from the criticism of bombing that related to their rooted racist philosophy and actions, they have frequented to throwing muds to Turkey when they catch the opportunity of AG. Those authors have been permanently writing that how Turks mistreated to Armenians and the other christians. I find them exaggerated and I don’t believe. I believe in what I witness is real. And I believe in what it is written in newspaper Radikal that is about opinions of Armenians living in Turkey since many years.

                  TurQ your comments sounds like a antagonism of intellecttuals, like a typical conservative politician’s, accusing them for despising ordinary people. For me, Pamuk did the right thing. It is not a shame to accept some realities. While we deny them some people like Tessa Hoffmann will get the opportunity to continue their deliriumic works and to exaggerate every thing about Turkey.

                  And I agree with that Pamuk is neither hero nor traitor.

                  Comment

                  • #29
                    Originally posted by cosmos2
                    Since I have read Tessa Hoffmans’s claim concerning about Gas Chambers made by Turks for Armenians in Trabzon, I realized that every westerner writer is not trustworthy. Even if unconciously, they, of course, have the ability of liying due to some ideas of delirium. Tessa Hoffmann most probably have felt ashamed of Europe’s racist genocidal past and looking for a partner from East to relieve the trouble. A kind of person confessing for calm.
                    Classic ... I must say.
                    1) you haven't bother to read the report
                    2) you are attacking the person not the strength of her evidence.
                    3) you don't have anything to say, but it's a lie, or biase ... because you are incapable of building any reasonable counter-argument !!

                    Well for your info. there were "gas chambers" in the Armenian Genocide, although they were not as developed as Hitler's, but they brought the same result ... that is killing of hundreds or maybe thousands of people in a very short time...
                    Those gas chambers, were the caves all along the way... Armenians were forced to enter the caves or maybe tricked to enter them ... entier villages or more, and the caves were set in fire and their enterence would be closed trapping the Armenians inside....

                    Many of those caves were found during those passed 90 years, the latest one was found in Syria, the Italian ( If i'm not mistaken) researcher guided by local Bedouin tribes had found one of those Armenian Genocide gas Chambers (caves) ... He said that as soon as he took one of the sceletons out, it disintegrated into sand, due to their exposure to air after all that time !!!

                    So Mr. smarty ... I guess what you said is totally meaningless ... or maybe that's what you are reading in the idiotic Genocide denial sites !!!

                    Comment

                    • #30
                      Originally posted by RUDO
                      Originally posted by elendil
                      He is not a hero or a traitor. He is a coward, not because he said "30.000 Kurds and 1 million Armenians killed in this country" but rather he did not participate into discussions in TV channels that he was invited to represent his case. The idiot turned his back to the people to whom he is lecturing about past and thus posseses a responsiblity. If you wont talk with Turkish people about this, what is the point making a claim and running away with a few foreign diplomats? Who will listen to you in that way? What good such an action will make? All the things he has said and done, has promoted his popularity in west nothing more....
                      I think he has prefered his books to gain popularity not sily talk shows.
                      Do you think he can gain popularity by silly talk shows?
                      He has used books to share his thoughts.
                      Yes, and if people in Turkey think that he's a coward or not trust worthy ... His books wouldn't be the #1 best seller in Turkey ...
                      Maybe he didn't want to do the talk show because he was busy doing another talk show, in Paris, Germany, Holland, Sweden ... or anywhere else on earth ... After all, he is famous on an International level, and his books have been transelated into 30 languages !!!!

                      If Turks have a little bit of brain, they'll know that a man like that should be treated like a national treasure ... not to be convicted for speaking out his opinion !!!

                      Hellooo ... Human Rightsss

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