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Israel Lobby driving US foreign policy
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"All truth passes through three stages:
First, it is ridiculed;
Second, it is violently opposed; and
Third, it is accepted as self-evident."
Arthur Schopenhauer (1788-1860) -
Sorry,was that Harvard Dean or Howard Dean LOL!"All truth passes through three stages:
First, it is ridiculed;
Second, it is violently opposed; and
Third, it is accepted as self-evident."
Arthur Schopenhauer (1788-1860)Comment
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Interesting that the NY Sun would link this paper with David Duke, isn't it. Immediately, the title discredits the work of these Harvard professors by associating it with a former KKK leader.Originally posted by Gondorian
Anyway, did anyone notice that Bernard Lewis, a known Genocide denier, is mentioned in the Harvard report: "Other neo-conservatives were meanwhile at work in teh corridors of power. We don't have the full story yet, but scholars like Bernard Lewis of Princeton and Fouad Ajami of Johns Hopkins reportedly played important roles in persuading Cheney that war was teh best option."
Well, that explains why Bernard Lewis is a denier of the Armenian Genocide. His views are controlled by or aligned with those of AIPAC, which openly lobbies on behalf of Turkey.Comment
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Well Phantom about Bernard Lewis, he does acknowledge the sufferings of Armenians. Thats not the issue. Turks are aware of Bernard's comments that you talk about, and they think "enistem beni niye opuyor?"
We are totally aware that Armenian thing is being used as a political tool against us, no not only the Armenians lobbyist I am talking about but by the people who support Turkey.
Remember the latest house hearing on Armenian events of 915. The guys who supported openly said "Turkey did not allow our troops so we should not
support them", the same guy( I forgot the name) supported Turkish position previously. So 3rd parties use this for their own gain. Turks are aware of this, do you think Armenians are aware as well?
Originally posted by phantomComment
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You're talking about Tom Lantos who is a Jewish congressman from California. He knows what happened to the Armenians is a Genocide. I wrote to him about this topic several years ago and he responded that he was aware of the sufferings of Armenians, and as an actual survivor of the Holocaust, was in complete sympathy with Armenians. However, he previously voted against Genocide recognition b/c of Turkey's strong-arming the Jewish AIPAC lobby. The only reason that Tom now voted against the Turkish interest is because AIPAC is beginning to realize that its support of Turkey doesn't result in any real reciprocation from Turkey. So the pressure from the AIPAC lobby against Armenian Genocide recognition has diminished a bit. That diminution has allowed disgruntled congressman like Lantos to be pushed over the edge and to allow their moral compass to finally decide their vote.Originally posted by TurQ
Your view of the whole thing is actually very distorted. If Turkey weren't a denier country and would accept this truth, then the western powers wouldn't have this bargaining chip to keep waving in Turkey's face every time they want something from Turkey. It is Turkey who allows itself to be used by immoral and gutless powers who cynically use the Armenian Genocide as a bargaining chip against it.Comment
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Phantom
I am not here for a dog fight of thing, but cant you see that Armenians aim use that "gutless+immoral" forces against Turkey?(actually in this case it is vice a versa). And cant you see that because of this average Turk percieves that "yes these guys are actually collaborating world powers against us, try to harm us". And What else do you expect them to think, and what else you expect them to say, "yes they do now, sure they have did in the past".
You totally ignore the perception dimension of this conflict.
Originally posted by phantomComment
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Its one thing for the "average" ignorant Turk to dislpay such and see things in the manner that has been force fed to them by your government. Its quite another thing for so-called scholars and such bandying about these known falsehoods and shameless people like you trying to twist righteous indignation against such horrific displays of heartless hatred and xenophobia into an argument that portrays Armenians as being responsible for perpetuation of this idiocy. They and YOU! keep this genocide alive and well as a current ongoing phenomonon.Originally posted by TurQComment
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?????
I am just saying whether you like it or not, whether you are aware or not, whether you are right or wrong it doesnt matter, this issue has been politicized and being abused by other forces. Whatever you say about Turks, TUrkey or me does not matter, it is this fact whether you like it or not that Armenian lobbysts in US or EU is being played with by those very same powers that plays with Turkey.
Now you are angry and accuse Turkey which is done by Armenian lobbysts?
You can accuse Turkey go on and go ahead, but can you blame Turkey for the politics adopted by your leaders?
Again totally irrelevant response, same know same structural response when this topic comes up. OK I withdraw what I say, will you be happy now with the politics of your leaders?
Ok be happy
Originally posted by 1.5 millionComment
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What part of honesty do you not understand?Comment
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The Israel Lobby? by Noam Chomsky
"All truth passes through three stages:
First, it is ridiculed;
Second, it is violently opposed; and
Third, it is accepted as self-evident."
Arthur Schopenhauer (1788-1860)Comment
Comment