Conference spotlights developing approach to Armenian claims

[hitite]

In the face of ruthless denial, Armenians cannot lessen their efforts for recognition simply because it will hurt a few Turks' feelings. When we struggle for international recognition of the Armenian Genocide, we don't concern ourselves with what a reactionary minority will think of it.

Kharpert, what is your goal??? International recognition of the A.G. except Turkey or including Turkey?? That reactionary minority that does not concern you could well be 70-80 million Turks. Would you care 'less' or 'more' about the feelings of a 'few' million Turks. How do you plan to change their feelings towards the A.G. if you really care? If you dont care then what do you care about?

[Kharpert]

Seeing as that Turkey is the least likely nation to recognize the Armenian Genocide, then the diaspora should focus it's efforts on getting the international community to recognize it first. For example, apartheid died down in South Africa due party to international pressure, which is the same tactic I am advocating.

I wouldn't say that I don't "care" about reactionary Turks, but why should their resistance be a reason to slow down the pursuit for recognition?

[hitite]

Seeing as that Turkey is the least likely nation to recognize the Armenian Genocide, then the diaspora should focus it's efforts on getting the international community to recognize it first. For example, apartheid died down in South Africa due party to international pressure, which is the same tactic I am advocating.

I wouldn't say that I don't "care" about reactionary Turks, but why should their resistance be a reason to slow down the pursuit for recognition?

My post to you is actually based on my post #20 which may make myself more understandable. However the example you give here is irrelevant. Apartheid died down because the black majority supported the international pressure on S.Africa; the people and the international community wanted the same thing. How is your tactic, as you call it, going to work when 70 million and maybe close to 80-90 million Turks if you include the Turkish diaspora whole heartedly do not believe that there was an A.G.

[Kharpert]

hitite, I see your point. I know that Turks can see the Genocide issue as very polarizing and paritcularly threatening, but the vicious cycle of, "I'm right and you're wrong" has to end somewhere. I would propose that censorship laws in Turkey be smashed and have the cirriculum for history in Turkish schools revised. But in the meantime, I don't see why it shouldn't be on the agenda of the Armenian diaspora to have the international community also understand our point.

[hitite]

...but the vicious cycle of, "I'm right and you're wrong" has to end somewhere.

Exactly. So how do we do that? Nobody is going to say "ok, you are right" and start a new chapter. So the whole thing should be taken outside the pretext of being right and wrong and stripped of its overwhelmingly political nature.

I don't see why it shouldn't be on the agenda of the Armenian diaspora to have the international community also understand our point.

There is no problem having the international community understand your point. I could tell you that you are not even doing enough to make yourself heard. However when all this leads for example France, Germany or Lithuania to prematurely "recommend" that Turkey accepts the A.G. it just pushes Turkey further away from ever accepting it and creates new generations of anti-armenian, ultra-nationalist foreigner-hating groups. Since I fantasize that your ultimate aim is to have Turkey accept the genocide I just cannot see how your tactic is going to work. Maybe I am just trying to rationalise the whole thing on a too simple line of thought but could somebody please tell me the dynamics of this strategy and how it is going to work. Since you have a cause you obviously have a clear goal which I assume could be "To have Turkey officially recognize the Armenian Genocide and pay reparitions to those Armenians who left their property in Turkey at the beginning of the last century". I personally am absolutely cool with this goal. So what steps do you intend to take in order to accomplish your aim and if one of those steps is to have the international community put pressure on Turkey how will this step help reach your goal?

[Kharpert]

Good points, hitite. However, it is not only Armenian lobbyists that have an active hand in the Genocide issue. The Turkish Denial Machine is also actively attempting to influence international communities to accept their historical revisions. This is why the Armenian lobby tends to be so reactionary; we are attempting to quell denialist propaganda as much as we are trying to present our own point. So while the steps the Armenian lobbyists take may antagonize Turkey, it is often in response to denialist pressures.

So what steps do you intend to take in order to accomplish your aim...?

Well, I've always believed that a critical step in acheiving our goal is breaking down the barriers of censorship in Turkey, which will allow discussion of the Genocide without needing to force it on anyone.

[maral_m79]

I am very suprised at Kaiser and Auron participating in this farce. It (the "symposium" itself and the presentations) litereally turn my stomach and make my blood boil. And of course its academic credentioals are in eveidence - look now - they are distributing Holdwater...etc - yeech. I do hope others see this for what it is - however I think for the Turks this farce will be 100% sucess - "see we are discussing" etc - Shame on those who participated in such.

There are even Armenians who partecipated, why we blame Kaiser and Auron, while some Armenians like "Ara Sarafian, Hrant Dink , Dr.Boghos Zekiyan " had particepated... Even Drs. Israel Charney, Tessa Hoffman will attend, while Berktay, Taner Akcam, and Baskin Oran all refused late invitations!

If there is a positive side of this circuss, that would be the Turkish authorities' recognition of people like Dink and Sarafian to be "Historians" !

So next time when Sarafian say something Turks won't be able to say that he does not have a PhD in History or he's not a historian coz they have already recognized him as one by inviting him to that conference

[hitite]

Good points, hitite. However, it is not only Armenian lobbyists that have an active hand in the Genocide issue. The Turkish Denial Machine is also actively attempting to influence international communities to accept their historical revisions. This is why the Armenian lobby tends to be so reactionary; we are attempting to quell denialist propaganda as much as we are trying to present our own point. So while the steps the Armenian lobbyists take may antagonize Turkey, it is often in response to denialist pressures.

I have nothing to say for reacting for something they believe in and I'm not saying Turkeys policy is right, IMO it is not right. People, historians, academicians, farmers etc. should state their opinions, people should discuss. This should be part of the healing process. Turks and Armenians alike should be compensated for. However the fact that there are lobbyists, both Turkish and Armenian means that all this is on a too political a platform which is just making things more difficult.

Well, I've always believed that a critical step in acheiving our goal is breaking down the barriers of censorship in Turkey, which will allow discussion of the Genocide without needing to force it on anyone.

So you too agree that putting pressure on Turkey by way of foreign parliament recognitions of the A.G. and other political attempts are futile?

[Kharpert]

No, putting pressure by way of foreign recognition is effective, but much less desirable than the goals I've put forth. Either way, I don't expect everyone in the world to recognize the Armenian Genocide, but I do believe that the governments' official stance will change in time to drop the policy of denial. After all, in Germany today there are still Nazi apologists, and even though they are just a minority, it proves that you can't change the minds of everyone.

However the fact that there are lobbyists, both Turkish and Armenian means that all this is on a too political a platform which is just making things more difficult.

Indeed, that's very sad and true, but that's just the reality.