Kemal Ataturk admitted the AG?

[realityShow]

I said this before, perhaps here, that I think most Armenians have no real interest in wanting to see proper documentary evidence of the genocide because, in their hearts, they think that only Armenians are capable of understanding the issues - and since all Armenians know that the genocide did happen there is thus no need to display such documentary evidence.

Must be kidding... So you only accept AG in Armenia but don't expect anyone else to do so

[HayerMiacek]

Affirming is not the same as providing original documentation.

Well, how do you think they affirmed it? Did they just pull out fake facts from their asses and decided to aknolwedge it?

Most of the Genocide scholars are world famous, Samantha Powers, Yehuda Bauer, Israel Charny ect...

Do you think they would affirm something before being 100% sure of it? After all they are historians and not politicians.

[HayerMiacek]

Here again, these are all world-famous historians:

International Affirmation of the Armenian Genocide

Public Petitions

Statement by 126 Holocaust Scholars, Holders of Academic Chairs, and Directors of Holocaust Research and Studies Centers

March 7, 2000

View image of the petition appeared in New York Times, June 9, 2000.

126 HOLOCAUST SCHOLARS AFFIRM THE INCONTESTABLE FACT OF THE ARMENIAN GENOCIDE AND URGE WESTERN DEMOCRACIES TO OFFICIALLY RECOGNIZE IT

At the Thirtieth Anniversary of the Scholar's Conference on the Holocaust and the Churches Convening at St. Joseph University, Philadelphia, Pennsylvania, March 3-7, 2000, one hundred twenty-six Holocaust Scholars, holders of Academic Chairs and Directors of Holocaust Research and Studies Centers, participants of the Conference, signed a statement affirming that the World War I Armenian Genocide is an incontestable historical fact and accordingly urge the governments of Western democracies to likewise recognize it as such. The petitioners, among whom is Nobel Laureate for Peace Elie Wiesel, who was the keynote speaker at the conference, also asked the Western Democracies to urge the Government and Parliament of Turkey to finally come to terms with a dark chapter of Ottoman-Turkish history and to recognize the Armenian Genocide. This would provide an invaluable impetus to the process of the democratization of Turkey.

Below is a partial list of the signatories:



Prof. Yehuda Bauer
Distinguished Professor
Hebrew University
Director, The International Institute of Holocaust Research
Yad Vashem, Jerusalem

Prof. Israel Charny, Director
Institute of the Holocaust and Genocide, Jerusalem
Professor at the Hebrew University,
Editor-in-Chief of The Encyclopedia of Genocide

Prof. Ward Churchill
Ethnic Studies
The University of Colorado, Boulder

Prof. Stephen Feinstein, Director
Center for Holocaust and Genocide Studies
University of Minnesota

Prof. Saul Friedman, Director
Holocaust and Jewish Studies
Youngston State University, Ohio

Prof. Edward Gaffney
Valparaiso University Law School

Prof. Zev Garber
Los Angeles Valley College

Prof. Dorota Glowacka
University of King's Collage
Halifax, Nova Scotia

Dr. Irving Greenberg, President
Jewish Life Network

Prof. Herbert Hirsch
Virginia Commonwealth University

Prof. Irving L. Horowitz
Hannah Arendt Distinguished Professor
Rutgers University, NJ

Rabbi Dr. Steve Jacobs
Temple Sinai Shalom
Huntsville, Alabama
Associate Editor of The Encyclopedia of Genocide

Prof. Steven Katz
Distinguish Professor
Director, Center for Judaic Studies
Boston University




Prof. Richard Libowitz
Temple University

Dr. Marcia Littell
Stockton College
Exec. Director, Scholars' Conference
On the Holocaust and the Churches

Franklin Littell
Emeritus Professor
Temple University

Prof. Hubert G. Locke
Washington University
Co-founder of the Annual Scholar's Conference
On the Holocaust and the Churches

Dr. Elizabeth Maxwell
Executive Director of the International Scholarly
Conference on the Holocaust, London, England

Prof. Erik Markusen
Southwest State University, MN

Prof. Saul Mendlowitz
Dag Hammerskjold Distinguished Professor
of International Law
Rutgers University

Prof. Jack Needle, Director
Center for Holocaust Studies
Brookdale Community College
Lincroft, NJ

Dr. Philip Rosen, Director
Holocaust Education Center of the Delaware Valley

Prof. Alan S, Rosenbaum
Dept. of Philosophy
Cleveland State University

William L. Shulman, President
Association of Holocaust Organizations City University of New York

Prof. Samuel Totten
The University of Arkansas
Assoc. Editor of The Encyclopedia of Genocide

Prof. Elie Wiesel
Andrew W. Mellon Professor in the Humanities
Boston University
Founding Chairman of the United States
Holocaust Memorial Council
Nobel Laureate for Peace

[bell-the-cat]

Well, how do you think they affirmed it? Did they just pull out fake facts from their asses and decided to aknolwedge it?

Most of the Genocide scholars are world famous, Samantha Powers, Yehuda Bauer, Israel Charny ect...

Do you think they would affirm something before being 100% sure of it? After all they are historians and not politicians.

It's clear that you have just not understood what I have said.

[HayerMiacek]

It's clear that you have just not understood what I have said.

I am all ears

[Heat]

I said this before, perhaps here, that I think most Armenians have no real interest in wanting to see proper documentary evidence of the genocide because, in their hearts, they think that only Armenians are capable of understanding the issues - and since all Armenians know that the genocide did happen there is thus no need to display such documentary evidence.

I don't think this is really how it is although it's understandable how it can be precieved as such. While it is true that Armenians themselves don't really need documented proof of the genocide since most have had the stories told to them by surviving members of their families that passed on what they had witnessed with their own eyes on to their children and grandchildren, so I wouldn't really say it's because in our hearts we that that only we can understand. We don't need documented proof for ourselves since we believe our gradparents etc that were there and experienced it first hand and managed to live to tell about it, but although those first hand accounts should carry some weight, we do have plenty of eye witness accounts from non-Armenians.

I would sooner explain it this way.
Some Armenians don't understand why they should have to prove what has already been proven, over and over and over again, just because some turk pops up once in a while to repeat the same old worn out tired denialist BS we have been seeing for years that never held any water from the get-go. But when it comes to normal people who are truly interested in the facts surrounding the AG, I personally prefer to give them eye witness accounts of non-Armenians (for the obvious reasons) and documentation from government archives, particularly of Germany since they were turkey's wartime allies and cannot be considered as biased or wartime propaganda by the enemy, rather than a simple, "It's the undeniable truth and that's all you need to know.".

I do agree that just because Elie Wiesel or whoever "said-so" isn't the same as providing actual evidence. Kind of reminds me of the phrase, "A nod is as good as a wink." for some reason. Plus there are many people that think Elie Wiesel is not a genuinely honest person to begin with, so they would tend to disbelieve rather than believe.

BTW, personally, I have never used affirmations or recognitions by this that or the other country as "proof" there was a genocide.

[ardakilic]

Yes M. Kemal admitted the Genocide in several time but halfheartedly. But this didnot happen that because he tries to follow truth becuase he made overtures to Western powers. When step by step he took all the power and became a dictator, namely after 1920, he never mentioned about the Genocides. For him, Genocide is just a political manoeuvre to exploit.

[Sako]

I also don't think that he felt really bad and just agreed with the Genocide. It's all politics. But the nonetheless, he agreed with it slightly or completely.