Who makes use of hate between Armenian and Turkish People?

[Joseph]

yeah right sovjet soldiers with the armenian flag

You're buddy Thomas Goltz reported on it in an article he wrote in 1994

Called "Letter from Eurasia: The Russia's Hidden Hand". The Azeri forces apparently shelled the 366th mess hall and killed a few of their officers and the 366th later attacked khojalu that night. They would later commit other massacres on Chechnya (Samashki)

[HayerMiacek]

yeah right sovjet soldiers with the armenian flag

please leave this forum, nobody needs to hear your blabber

[Vogelgrippe]

This is opening up a whole new can of worms. Along with Artsakh, the Armenians control about 14% of Azerbaijan. The Azeris bagan the 1990's by massacring Armenians and deporting them from the Shahumian and Hadrut regions and shelling Stepanakert (Operation Ring) If you are going to argue that Armenians should submit to Azerbaijan, I would argue that Cypriot Turks first do the same with the Greek Cypriots.

Turkey has made it clear officially on several occasions there principle regarding th border.

1. Armenian recognition of the borders
2. Armenians (Not just in Armenia) stop trying to have the genocide recognized
3. Armenians submit to Azerbaijan.

Although some ( and I must emphasize "some") Armenians want land from Turkey, the Armenian state does not.
The other two points are impossible as Armenia will not abandon the Armenins in Artsakh and you already know how Armenians feel regarding the Genocide.

In case I don't totally misunderstand you, I am saying almost the same thing.
It is totally unrealistic for Turkey to demand/expect Armenia and Armenians to drop genocide recognition activities.

About the border recognition issue, I have not sufficient information regarding the Armenian government's official position (which counts more than individuals' opinions), so I would appreciate it if you could post or provide some links about it.

I am also with you that it is unrealistic to expect Armenia to withdraw from all Karabagh, (and even some territories of Azerbaijan proper which connect Armenia to Karabagh). But Armenia should definitely withdraw from the remaining Azerbaijani proper territories at once.

I put it very sincerely and openly as a human being first, and Turk second: For me, the present plight of hundreds of thousands of Azeri refugees is more important that the acknowledgement of Armenian sufferings 90 years ago. And if you replaced the words 'Azeris' and 'Armenians' in my previous sentence, I would wholeheartedly defend the rights of Armenians because their current plight could be stopped at once.

Finally, you should also note that Turkish Cypriots were ready to hand over about 27% of their territory to Greek Cypriots if the Annan Plan of 2004 were approved by both sides. As you very well know, Turkish Cypriots approved this plan by a 65 % majority in the May 2004 referandum, while the Greek Cypriots rejected the plan with a 75 % majority.

[Joseph]

In case I don't totally misunderstand you, I am saying almost the same thing.
It is totally unrealistic for Turkey to demand/expect Armenia and Armenians to drop genocide recognition activities.

About the border recognition issue, I have not sufficient information regarding the Armenian government's official position (which counts more than individuals' opinions), so I would appreciate it if you could post or provide some links about it.

I am also with you that it is unrealistic to expect Armenia to withdraw from all Karabagh, (and even some territories of Azerbaijan proper which connect Armenia to Karabagh). But Armenia should definitely withdraw from the remaining Azerbaijani proper territories at once.

I put it very sincerely and openly as a human being first, and Turk second: For me, the present plight of hundreds of thousands of Azeri refugees is more important that the acknowledgement of Armenian sufferings 90 years ago. And if you replaced the words 'Azeris' and 'Armenians' in my previous sentence, I would wholeheartedly defend the rights of Armenians because their current plight could be stopped at once.

Finally, you should also note that Turkish Cypriots were ready to hand over about 27% of their territory to Greek Cypriots if the Annan Plan of 2004 were approved by both sides. As you very well know, Turkish Cypriots approved this plan by a 65 % majority in the May 2004 referandum, while the Greek Cypriots rejected the plan with a 75 % majority.

I'll try to find some links. I do know for certain the President Kocharian has said publicly that Armenia has no territorial claims on Turkey. In an interview with Mehmet Ali Birand of the TDN he repeated this.

I believe that Armenians will probably hold onto the NK region plus Berdzor and Karavachar but probably relinquish Aghdam, Jebrail, Fizuli, Kubatli. Meanwhile Azerbaijan will get to keep Shahumian, Ardavashen, and parts of Mardekert and Hadrut currently under their control. Right now the Armenians are holding some of those regions as bargaining chips and will most likely give them back once their future and security is guaranteed.

The plight of the Azeri refugees is very sad ideed. The Armenians also had over 300,000 refugees from the conflict, mostly Baku, Sumgait, and Shahumian Armenians. In the case of refugees, it's at least good to see that they weren't slaughtered.

I've followed Cyprus very close and because of the Nagorno Karabakh issue realize it is probably best to keep the Turks and Greeks seperate. I think the Greeks are taking maximalist position similar to the Azeris.