OMG Turkey is starting to panic

[Vogelgrippe]

Guys, can we end this thread? It's going nowhere and is continually degenerating.

Joseph,

You are right. This thread is degenerating because of my constant usage of swearwords, my hideous & wholesale insults directed at an entire nation, my manipulations, my engagement in provocative wagers, and my lack of constructive and civilized approach.

Therefore, I will heed to your warning, and post here no more.

[Joseph]

Joseph,

You are right. This thread is degenerating because of my constant usage of swearwords, my hideous & wholesale insults directed at an entire nation, my manipulations, my engagement in provocative wagers, and my lack of constructive and civilized approach.

Therefore, I will heed to your warning, and post here no more.

I am not blaming you Vogelgrippe.

[hitite]

Vogel, are you changing the subject again I can feel Salaktor is just about to say that again. What was the subject anyway????

[imported_Hellektor]

Wowww man, how impressive, how sensational! We are so proud of you.

Still, let me summarize in short what I've always said.

- You have come up with your sexually loaded bet about historic Armenia and location of pre-1918 Azerbaijan. I invited you to prove that I had claimed the contrary view in any of my postings (so that the bet would have a validity, two people defending two opposing claims). You couldn't prove it, but as Mr. Perfect, you did not admit that I had never challenged you on these two issues either

- Neither did I claim that the name 'Eastern Anatolia' existed in 1915. It has nothing to do with 1915, but with 1923, when the Republic of Turkey was founded, and divided into seven administrative regions. The first two links I included are American geographical and topographical websites, and they include works of Turkish scientists as well. About the third one, I thought you would like Wickipedia since it was used many times to slander Turkey on this forum

- I always and totally acknowledged that part of historic Armenia is in today's Eastern Anatolia (or Turkey). However, I also indicated to the fact, that in some historical maps, that region is also called Kurdistan. Check for yourself:

http://www.krysstal.com/democracy_turkey_kurdistan.html

Since you claim to speak German as well, you can also check Karl May's 'Durch das wilde Kurdistan', where Agrı, Van, Elazig (Kharpert) is referred to as Kurdistan. And I seriously do not think that Karl May was an undercover Turkish agent.

- I wrote you that Armenians have not been a majority in what is today's Eastern Anatolia for several centuries. Your Tabernier quote disputes it, and I explained you why this gentleman's findings is dubious. Look at all accounts of related historians and statesmen, including Henry Morgenthau and Patrick Kinross, who are otherwise quite anti-Turkish in their tone. They all show Armenians as a significant minority (between 25 and 40%) in 19th century in Eastern Turkey / Historic Armenia.

-In the light of the previous paragraph, I claim that ARMENIANS DID NOT CONSTITUTE A MAJORITY IN WHAT YOU CALL WESTERN ARMENIA IN 1915, NOR PRIOR TO 1915. Armenians had probably constituted a majority in these regions prior to 1071, when Turks entered Anatolia, but this situation had changed few centuries before 1915. The decrease in their relative numbers had been probably due to oppression and attrocities (committed by Seldjuks and early Ottomans) as well, which had, however, taken place way before 1915 or 1815. All other claims excepts this one, which you attribute to me, and make subject of your sucky-screwy bets, has nothing to do with me. You might have felt the boomerang effect and enjoyed it, but it really is inmature and untactful when discussing serious things.

- There have admittedly been some Turks in this forum who have denied each and every justifiable claim of Armenians, and I have consistently opposed them the way I oppose your nonsense. Therefore you play an ugly game here by hitting under belt whenever you feel cornered due to your own mistakes and putting words in my mouth.

- You can formulate the word 'xxxx' in 100 different versions, and use it at your will. For the next time, let me propose the 'Phuq', and 'Fuhk' combinations, because I have not seen you using these two yet. (And God, you are blaming me with 'cussing' for Heaven's sake)

- You have been warned by the moderators of this forum not to use cusses, even if they are disguised under misspellings. As I openly stated several times, I seriously doubt their goodwill and honesty regarding upholding forum rules, especially when it comes to banning Turkhating cussmachines like you. Still, be careful, It would upset me to lose you, because at least you seem to be honest about what you are.

All I try to say is "Eastern Anatolia" is a GENOCIDAL TERM.
You find 1001 ways of maneuvering the subject yet you are mad at me.
Can you show some respect and refrain from saying "Eastern Anatolia"?
That would be a beginning for dialog.

I have been warned but sometimes you just can't avoid the GD word. It has lost its power since a loooong long time. The little kid in Jerry Maguire uses it too. I find it hypocritical that one should be checked for using the GD word now and again, when people like you call Armenia "Eastern Anatolia" or deny that Armenians were the majority in their homeland. Besides, why, even if we believed the McFarty garbage, Armenians should be denied their homeland because it was infested with vermin that drove them out in the first place?
I don't get that McFarty "logic": Armenians had been destroyed for nine centuries therefore, they did not have the right to demand their homeland. Phuqque that!

I hammered on the bet because you provided the links. Why did you do that, if you weren't trying to change the subject?
US universities?
First of all, they are all owned by the Jews.
Second of all, an average American has never, will never hear the words Armenia or Armenian. I put my bet this way: I bet 90% of Americans cannot show their ally Turkey on the map let alone know "Eastern Anatolia" is the genocidal name for Armenia.

[Hovik]

I never knew my university was owned by Jews??? I always thought it was public... I learn something new every day!!!

[Bulgarian]

TurQ, here is a summary of (majority) Armenian reactions to true or alleged genocides.

Belgians committed genocide on Congolese: Nooo, poor Belgians were just modernizing (and a little bit colonizing Congo)! BTW where the heck is Congo anyways?

Russians committed genocide on Tatars: Nooo, Tatars were all and 101% Nazi collaborators. They were friendly shipped to Siberia for recreational purposes.

Russians committed genocide on Caucasian Moslems: Nooooo, are you kidding? Look at Chechens, they are all terrorists. I am sure their massacred ancestors were terrorists too!

French committed genocide on Algerians? Nooo, millions of Algerians live and work in France now (as if Algeria is a rich and industrialized nation). Would they do so if there was a genocide?

British committed genocide in Indian Subcontinent: Noooooo, come on, how come more than a billion people live there now?

Turks committed genocide on Armenians: Yesssssssssssss. Not only on Armenians, but they even managed to commit genocide on Greeks while Western & Northwestern Turkey was under Greek occupation!

Welcome back to the kingdom of reason

All this talk is non sense I dont think anyone is denying these genocides. Well most of them anyway.

I have never heard of the "Algerian Genocide" and I dont know if you can classify a few massacres against Indians as a genocide.

[Bulgarian]

Hellektor I agree and disagree with you.

The average American probably hasn't heard of Armenia Armenian or Armenian Genocide so I think your right about that.

On the other hand I searched google for Armenian Studies and I found the following:

http://armenianstudies.csufresno.edu/ - California State University (Fresno) has an entire Armenian Studies department.
http://www.umd.umich.edu/dept/armenian/ - University of Michigan has an Armenian Studies department.
http://www.uclaarmenian.org/ - University of California (Los Angeles)
There are many more universities but I dont have time to put the links here

Even an Israeli univerisity has Armenian Studies:

http://micro5.mscc.huji.ac.il/~armenia/ - The Hebrew University of Jerusalem offers Armenian Studies (I know its not an American University but it shows that Israelis dont all hate Armenia and Armenians).

Even one of the best universities of the world offer Armenian Studies:

http://www.orinst.ox.ac.uk/nme/armenian_info.shtml - Oxford University, England.


Infact I think the universities that offer Turkish Studies outnumber the ones that offer Armenian Studies by not a very large number (ie not a figure like 20 times the ones that offer Armenian Studies) and when you compare the populations of Armenians and Turks it just goes to show you that the Armenians are well represented in education. There are also plenty more places where one can learn Armenian Studies compared to Bulgarian Studies.


PS - lol Hellektor I dont mean to offend you but I think you need to relax a tiny bit. I think you go overboard on your attacks on people (its quite funny to read at times )

[imported_Hellektor]

Hellektor I agree and disagree with you.

The average American probably hasn't heard of Armenia Armenian or Armenian Genocide so I think your right about that.

On the other hand I searched google for Armenian Studies and I found the following:

http://armenianstudies.csufresno.edu/ - California State University (Fresno) has an entire Armenian Studies department.
http://www.umd.umich.edu/dept/armenian/ - University of Michigan has an Armenian Studies department.
http://www.uclaarmenian.org/ - University of California (Los Angeles)
There are many more universities but I dont have time to put the links here

Even an Israeli univerisity has Armenian Studies:

http://micro5.mscc.huji.ac.il/~armenia/ - The Hebrew University of Jerusalem offers Armenian Studies (I know its not an American University but it shows that Israelis dont all hate Armenia and Armenians).

Even one of the best universities of the world offer Armenian Studies:

http://www.orinst.ox.ac.uk/nme/armenian_info.shtml - Oxford University, England.


Infact I think the universities that offer Turkish Studies outnumber the ones that offer Armenian Studies by not a very large number (ie not a figure like 20 times the ones that offer Armenian Studies) and when you compare the populations of Armenians and Turks it just goes to show you that the Armenians are well represented in education. There are also plenty more places where one can learn Armenian Studies compared to Bulgarian Studies.


PS - lol Hellektor I dont mean to offend you but I think you need to relax a tiny bit. I think you go overboard on your attacks on people (its quite funny to read at times )

Since you haven't quoted me, I really didn't get your point. I never said there are no Armenian studies in US universities, so can you elaborate?

If you are referring to the part where in reply to the links posted by Vogel to defend the "Eastern Anatolian" nonsense, I said:

Second of all, an average American has never, will never hear the words Armenia or Armenian. I put my bet this way: I bet 90% of Americans cannot show their ally Turkey on the map let alone know "Eastern Anatolia" is the genocidal name for Armenia.

I meant, if some butthole "scholar" is allowed to write an article about "Eastern Anatolia" in a US university, it doesn't make the article the word of god. The Americans couldn't care less about "Eastern Anatolia" being the genocidal term for Armenia most probably because they don't have a clue. Everything clear?

[imported_Hellektor]

They Own America!

I never knew my university was owned by Jews??? I always thought it was public... I learn something new every day!!!

I copy/paste from this page.
Also here you see they own practically every organization in the US.

UNIVERSITIES:
(Current or recent)
"Ronald Ehrenberg, the Irving M. Ives Professor of Industrial and Labor Relations and vice president for academic programs, planning and budgeting, drew mainly from his personal experiences and his background as a Jew to demonstrate the continued need for affirmative action programs ... . Six out of eight Ivy League universities in recent years have had Jewish presidents, Ehrenberg said."
“It’s fascinating,” observed President James O. Freedman in the February 11 Los Angeles Times, “that there was not a Jewish president of a major university — with one or two exceptions — until about 15 years ago. And then all of a sudden — without notice — there are Jewish presidents now at dozens of major institutions.” Among all those presidents, however, Freedman remains among the most outspoken on Jewish issues in higher education. Through a series of public comments, notably his 1990 attack on the Dartmouth Review, Freedman has repeatedly used his ethnicity to make a name for himself in academic circles. The Los Angeles Times interview concerned his comments at the opening of the Roth Center for Jewish Life, in which he exposed Dartmouth’s history of anti-Semitism."

Tufts University,
"Lawrence S. Bacow, recently installed as president of Tufts University, likes to say that the naming of a Jewish college president is hardly newsworthy anymore. After all, MIT named Jerry Weisner in 1970, and since then Jewish presidents have reigned at prestigious institutions from Dartmouth to Harvard, Penn to Princeton ... And, the new Tufts head boasts, every door of the President's mansion on the Medford campus now hosts a mezzuzah, while the kitchen has been koshered for his family's use. Bacowv's strong commitment to Judaism and the Jewish community is clear from his positions as a director of the Jewish Community Housing for the Elderly and a trustee of Hebrew College, and his wife's role as a trustee of Temple Emmanuel in Newton. He believes it is important for American Jews to 'speak up on behalf of Israel and to show their support visibly,' yet he understands the complexities of the situation."

Harvard University,
President: [B]Lawrence Summersv (replaced Neil Rudenstine)
"I speak with you today not as President of the University but as a concerned member of our community about something that I never thought I would become seriously worried about -- the issue of anti-Semitism. I am Jewish, identified but hardly devout."
(More concern about anti-Semitism)

Yale University,
President: Richard L. Levin
Princeton University,
President: Harvey Shapiro (stepped down after 12 years, in 2001)

Dartmouth College,
President: James O. Freedman
(What Being Jewish Means to Me: "I dearly wish that my father, who had confronted anti-semitism in finding his early teaching positions, had lived long enough to see the installation of Jewish presidents at numerous Ivy League and Big Ten universities.")
More hysterical Judeocentric weirdness from Freedman.

Cornell University,
President: Jeffrey Lehman

University of Pennsylvania,
President: Judith Rodin [succeeded in 2004 by Amy Gutmann]
* "KOL NIDRE REMARKS: We ask: 'Where are we, ourselves?' not just, 'Where am I?' We pray collectively, both to recognize our collective responsibilities and to acknowledge the failings and limitations that are common to us all. In this way, we express the essential inter-relatedness between our own actions and the larger community in and for which we act."
* "[T]he University of Pennsylvania will not support divestment from Israel, boycotts of Israeli scholars and scientists, or any effort to stifle the free expression of diverse ideas and opinions about the Middle East conflict by our faculty and students."
* "[T]argeting Israel for divestment and boycotts is wrong."

Penn's Next President,
University of Pennsylvania
"Amy Gutmann, the Provost and Laurance S. Rockefeller University Professor of Politics and the University Center for Human Values at Princeton University, was elected the University of Pennsylvania’s next president by Penn's Board of Trustees at its Feb. 20 [2004] stated meeting."

Northwestern University,
President: Henry Bienen, also Jewish
"Northwestern hosts an annual summer Institute for Holocaust and Jewish Civilization .... President Bienen serves as the honorary chair for the Institute."

University of California,
President: Richard Atkinson (former Chancellor of UC - San Diego)
(Atkinson is a member of the Board of Directors of the avidly pro-Israel Koret Foundation, which features its "Israel Emergency Fund")

Stanford University,
Chairman of the Board: Isaac Stein

McGill University (Canada),
Principal: Bernard Shapiro (stepped down in 2002)
Shapiro has been replaced by Heather Munroe-Blum
(she is married to Jewish screenwriter Len Blum)

Caltech,
President: David Baltimore

Carnegie Mellon University,
President: Jared L. Cohon

"Steven L. Isenberg, who has been Adelphi University's board chairman since the appointment of this group of trustees by the New York State Board of Regents in February 1997, was named interim president of Adelphi on July 26, when Matthew Goldstein announced his departure to become chancellor of the City University of New York."

West Chester University,
President: Madeleine Wing Adler
WCU is the headquarters of the National Association for Holocaust Studies.
(Note from a JTR contributor: Dr. Lawrence Davidson of the WCU history dept. says that "Israelis have come to believe in an alternate history." See page 84, April '03 issue of Washington Report On Middle East Affairs magazine.)

Bard College,
President: Leon Botstein

Connecticut College,
President: Norman Fainstein,
Report of the Presidential Commission on a Pluralistic Community at Connecticut College

University of Denver,
President: Marc Holtzman

Swarthmore College,
President: Alfred H. Bloom
Dean of the College: Robert Gross

George Washington University,
President: Stephen Joel Trachtenberg

University of Chicago,
Trustees:
Chairman of the board: James S. Crown (heir to the wealthy Jewish Crown family -- General Dynamics, etc.)
Vice-Chairman: Andrew M. Alper
Vice-Chairman: Paula Wolff
Secretary of the Board of Trustees: Kineret S. Jaffe
Honorary Trustee: Hugo Sonnenschein

University of Nebraska,
Chancellor: Harvey Perlman

Lafayette College,
President: Daniel Weiss, succeeds (December 2004) Arthur J. Rothkopf

York University (Canada),
Chair of the Board of Governors: Marshall A. Cohen
-- The York Foundation (the university's fund-raising source) includes Cohen, JudithCohen, Paul E. Marcus, H. Barry Gales, Alonna Goldfarb, Maxwell Gotleib, Julia Koschitzky, Honey Sherman, and Howard Sokolowski, many with activist ties to Israel.

Goucher College, (Baltimore)
President: Sanford J. Ungar

Temple University (Philadelphia),
President: David Adamy
------------------

New School for Social Research,
Dean of Graduate Faculty: Richard Bernstein
-------------------
The University of Alberta (Canada) has had two Jewish presidents: Max Wyman and Myer Horowitz.
From a correspondent: "When I was at the University of Arizona in the 1980s, the president, Henry Koffler, was a Jew and an open supporter of the JDL [Jewish Defense League], which was strong there. He also sat on the board of the Office of Technology Assessment. He now is the chairman of the U of A Foundation, which manages endowments."

They rule America and not only. Kudos to them and their brains, just if they could leave our tiny Artsakh alone...

[Hovik]

I copy/paste from this page.
Also here you see they own practically every organization in the US.


They rule America and not only. Kudos to them and their brains, just if they could leave our tiny Artsakh alone...

lol,

Just because their presidents are Jewish, doesn't mean Jews own them. Same with public universities, they have Jews that are a part of them. My university for example, doesn't have a Jew as the President. However, it does have Jews in the faculty and staff, as well as Turks, Armenians, and just about every other ethnicity / nationality. Just because you found some universitys that may have Jews as presidents, doesn't mean they "own" some, most or all American Universities. It just means our Universities don't discriminate when choosing faculty, staff, or presidents.

On a side note: The Jewish director of our college of Arts and Letters, who is now the director of the Jewish studies department, has been teaching Armenian Genocide History in his programs for a long time, and was the force driving the Universities Armenian Studies program. Futhermore, I spent 4 months studying the Armenian Genocide with him in-depth, one-on-one. I have nothing but respect and admiration for him.

Sure Jews have their hands in a lot of the organizations of the U.S. but so do a lot of other people. And none of them (that I know of) OWN the universities and I'd be very suprised if it was proven that they single-handedly control them, unless I am missing something...

Public universities have a board of directors that manage most aspects of the Universities operations. These board of directors are ELECTED by the citizens of the state by the way...

This conversation has nothing to do with the Armenian Genocide, AND we have a rule prohibiting such discussion... lets get back to the topic please...