Virtual Ani

[Vogelgrippe]

FYI, the author of that website is not Armenian, and is equally critical of Armenian diaspora groups who had called for restoration of the Akhtamar church, which the author argues was not necessary, except for minor repairs.

I'm not sure what her qualifications are, but I understand that she has extensive knowledge about historical architecture and has been to Turkey many times visiting historical (and not just Armenian) sites and recording her observations.

I am aware that she is not Armenian, and of the fact that not much is known about her arcitectural/archeological qualifications. Now tell me that any normal person with regular IQ and some geo-historical knowledge cannot prepare a similar website.

Anyways, if what you say is true, then I guess Turkey made a big mistake by respecting the wishes of Armenian diaspora groups, and not hers. You should also note that I did not dispute the possibility that Turkish authorities might have xxxxed up during the restauration process. Joseph's posted articles furthermore show that this xxxxup is not only a possibility, but almost a fact. Only I find it astonishing how Armenians interpret these xxxxups and are ready to execute without due process. (And assume that all mosque, imaret, Islamic building restaurations are made 100% correctly and properly in Turkey)

But hey, you are right. We evil Turks did it only for propaganda purposes and lack every small bit of goodwill. When we try to repair the Selimiye mosque, the jewel of Mimar Sinan, and xxxx up, we also do it for propaganda purposes.(Otherwise there is a tiny risk that Turkey might deserve a little praise for this, however small, gesture and show of goodwill) Therefore you should kill the postitive gut feeling before it grows, and you guys do it quite successfully.

[phantom]

I am aware that she is not Armenian, and of the fact that not much is known about her arcitectural/archeological qualifications. Now tell me that any normal person with regular IQ and some geo-historical knowledge cannot prepare a similar website.

Anyways, if what you say is true, then I guess Turkey made a big mistake by respecting the wishes of Armenian diaspora groups, and not hers. You should also note that I did not dispute the possibility that Turkish authorities might have xxxxed up during the restauration process. Joseph's posted articles furthermore show that this xxxxup is not only a possibility, but almost a fact. Only I find it astonishing how Armenians interpret these xxxxups and are ready to execute without due process. (And assume that all mosque, imaret, Islamic building restaurations are made 100% correctly and properly in Turkey)

But hey, you are right. We evil Turks did it only for propaganda purposes and lack every small bit of goodwill. When we try to repair the Selimiye mosque, the jewel of Mimar Sinan, and xxxx up, we also do it for propaganda purposes.(Otherwise there is a tiny risk that Turkey might deserve a little praise for this, however small, gesture and show of goodwill) Therefore you should kill the postitive gut feeling before it grows, and you guys do it quite successfully.

Please do refrain from infusing that hollier-than-thou attitude in your posts; it is agonizing to read. Moreover, excuse us if we automatically have supposedly "irrational" misgivings about Turkish intentions when it comes to our historical sites. Given that our sites are periodically destroyed in broad daylight by Turks and their brothers-in-arms (Jugha ring a bell), our reaction would appear to be justified, rational, and rather generous if you ask me.

[imported_Fadix]

The author is a he and not a she and yes has archeological background too.

[phantom]

Thanks for clarifying that Fadi.

[Hovik]

FYI, I was told in the past that one of our members, namely "bell-the-cat" was the creator of an Ani website, I believe it was virtual Ani...

[phantom]

Hovik, I believe that is correct. Although I do not know what his exact qualifications are. Maybe Fadi knows.

[Vogelgrippe]

Please do refrain from infusing that hollier-than-thou attitude in your posts; it is agonizing to read. Moreover, excuse us if we automatically have supposedly "irrational" misgivings about Turkish intentions when it comes to our historical sites. Given that our sites are periodically destroyed in broad daylight by Turks and their brothers-in-arms (Jugha ring a bell), our reaction would appear to be justified, rational, and rather generous if you ask me.

I don't know the meaning of 'hollier-than-thou' expression. If you explain the meaning of it, in Turkish if you prefer, I will gladly accept or counter your criticism.

[phantom]

It means that you are talking down to us, as if your position is on a higher ground, and is if our reaction to the Akhtamar church "reconstruction" is so senseless and irrational that there is no justification for it.

[Vogelgrippe]

It means that you are talking down to us, as if your position is on a higher ground, and is if our reaction to the Akhtamar church "reconstruction" is so senseless and irrational that there is no justification for it.

It is not me, or my country, who reflects all the negative and evil adjectives on Turks, mainly for Diaspora's propaganda purposes. If the Turk proves himself capable to improve, then there is a grave risk that world's opinion will eventually be more favorable to Turks.

Even your refusal of your misinterpretation (and/or your ironic, half-hearted acknowledgement) is based exactly on this 'reflection', on the 'otherness' of the Turk.

Can you deny that the entire summary of this thread is nothing but "Yeah the evil shifty Turks seem to be repairing it, but they have one zillion hidden agendas behind it" attitude.

And yet, you accuse me of talking down to you. No man, I am not doing that, because I know and understand where you are coming from. Therefore I do not find this attitude sensless and irrational, but simply wrong.

[phantom]

It's not about the individual Turk that we have misgivings. It is about the whole Turkish State attitude and agenda, and we have countless grounds to have mistrust dating back over 100 years. What amazes me is that you can expect anything else from us given what we have witnessed and continue to witness as the Turkish State agenda, and here I'll just name a few recent examples:

1. Reports show that in 1993, Turkey was almost minutes away from attacking Armenia;
2. The U.S. ambassador to Armenia is fired (this year) b/c he acknowledged on his own behalf that the Armenians had in fact suffered a Genocide (I wonder who put the U.S. administration up to that);
3. Azerbaijani Turks completely whipe out in broad daylight thousands of historical centuries-old khachkars, which would be considered national treasures in any civilized country;
4. Turkish prosecutors convict countless authors for uttering the word Genocide in their books, even if they're works of fiction, and the government does nothing to stop this insanity.
5. Turkish prosecutors open a case against our Pope, Karekin, for saying that a Genocide happened while on a visit to Turkey.

I can go on and on, and yet we wait patiently for somes signs of atonement or shame or something that has a semblance of humanity, and you have the nerve to come here and complain that we are complaining about the way the Turkish government has proceeded to supposedly reconstruct our ancient works of art and architecture, after years of neglect and abuse. Give me a break while I take a shi.t just thinking about your perverse perspective.