Turkey and the EU

[Bulgarian]

Allah belamı versin usanıyorum artık başka milletlere laf anlatmaktan... Okay we will play it your way...

Yeah man you are right. We are killers on massive scale. Just born to it you know? I do not feel good unless I dont kill one Armenian in the morning. After uni, a Kurd and an Assryian after work. A bloody hoby but it relaxes me a great deal. Many Turkish friends of mine practice the same ritual... It feels good...

Everyday Turkey kills Kurds and their Christian minorities.


The following is a partial list of Turkish massacres from 1822 up till 1904:
1822 Chios, Greeks 50,000
1823 Missolongi, Greeks 8,750
1826 Constantinople, Jannisaries 25,000
1850 Mosul, Assyrians 10,000
1860 Lebanon, Maronites 12,000
1876 Bulgaria, Bulgarians 14,700
1877 Bayazid, Armenians 1,400
1879 Alashguerd, Armenians 1,250
1881 Alexandria, Christians 2,000
1892 Mosul, Yezidies 3,500
1894 Sassun, Armenians 12,000
1895-96 Armenia, Armenians 150,000
1896 Constantinople, Armenians 9,570
1896 Van, Armenians 8,000
1903-04 Macedonia, Macedonians 14,667
1904 Sassun, Armenians 5,640
_______
Total 328,477

When you add the 1.5 million Armenians and over 1 million Greeks, Assyrians and other smaller Christian groups the figure comes over 3 million.

When you take the fact the Turkey currently has a policy of Turkification over its Kurdish minority and over the 90 years since the creation of the Turkish state millions of Kurds have lost their Kurdish roots and now are Turks.

I dont think I be wrong in saying that Turkey is a state only in existance because of its ethnic cleansing of the native peoples that dared to live in their ancient homelands that just happen to lie in the sphere of influence of Turkey.


"Mustapha Khemal now determined to make a complete and irretrievable ruin of Christianity in Asia Minor. Carthago delenda est. The plan, revealed by its execution, was to give the city up for some days to lust and carnage; to butcher the Armenians, a task which has always given a special pleasure to the Turk; to burn the town and to carry the Greek men away into captivity." George Horton.

This quote proves that your race does enjoy killing innocent non-Turks.

[kerkuk_kurdista]

Allah belamı versin usanıyorum artık başka milletlere laf anlatmaktan... Okay we will play it your way...

Yeah man you are right. We are killers on massive scale. Just born to it you know? I do not feel good unless I dont kill one Armenian in the morning. After uni, a Kurd and an Assryian after work. A bloody hoby but it relaxes me a great deal. Many Turkish friends of mine practice the same ritual... It feels good...

Maybe you do not know this, but what you are saying (probably 10 times worse) was normal during the Ottoman Empire and also after. Maybe because Turkish martial law and police-state government doesn't allow media to let you look what really happens in Turkey. Every week there are hundreds of deaths because of systematic torture. Every day there are Kurdish girls and women getting raped in the places where the Turkish army operate and train (all in the Kurdish area). You are not the victim, so you do not know this.

[elendil]

Maybe you do not know this, but what you are saying (probably 10 times worse) was normal during the Ottoman Empire and also after. Maybe because Turkish martial law and police-state government doesn't allow media to let you look what really happens in Turkey. Every week there are hundreds of deaths because of systematic torture. Every day there are Kurdish girls and women getting raped in the places where the Turkish army operate and train (all in the Kurdish area). You are not the victim, so you do not know this.

What I said was never normal, in any place in the world at any time. Killing for religion and belief was practiced and normal at medivial times. As to Turkish army's raping Kurdish girls and hundereds of people dying of torture, it is black propaganda, I know my country from İstanbul to Hakkari, I know my people be it Kurdish or Turkish. I did not buy the propaganda of Kurdish people being a branch of Turkish tribes as I do not buy what you bought from hate-sites of welatparez, kurdistan blog so on and on .You are right I am not the victim you are the victim. When I asked you about the incident of Kurdish refugees
after the massacre of Halepje, you had returned me the answer that such an event had not come to pass. You, who have no idea about a past decade history of your own people, lecture me about the past of Ottoman empire? I am sorry my Kurdish friend, while I dont make distinctions regarding ethnicity in debates or life, taking you seriously about the history of a dynasty that lasted five centuries, is not possible....

[kerkuk_kurdista]

I think you are the one who does not know anything about the history and crimes of the Turkish state. I have relatives myself all over in Kurdistan, I myself have lost over hundreds of family members because of Turkish aggression.
There were no Kurdish refugees coming to Turkey in the aftermath of the halabja incident. Halabja is 10km away from the border with IRAN, not Turkey. Even then, there was no mass exodus. You are the one that is blinded.
You want to eliminate the Kurdish identity from Turkey, which is why you do not want the distinction between Kurdish and Turkish. Because now everybody is recognized as a Turk, and must speak Turkish act Turkish and do everything Turkish, only then he or she is a good "Kurd".

[elendil]

I think you are the one who does not know anything about the history and crimes of the Turkish state. I have relatives myself all over in Kurdistan, I myself have lost over hundreds of family members because of Turkish aggression.
There were no Kurdish refugees coming to Turkey in the aftermath of the halabja incident. Halabja is 10km away from the border with IRAN, not Turkey. Even then, there was no mass exodus. You are the one that is blinded.

800.000 Kurdish people fled to border. You dont believe me ask the other Kurdish participiant of the forum Rudo. It is not about being blind man it is a fact....

I think you are the one who does not know anything about the history and crimes of the Turkish state. I have relatives myself all over in Kurdistan, I myself have lost over hundreds of family members because of Turkish aggression.

That may well be. 30.000 people died between the war of Turkish army and PKK. I also know PKK what methods it used. Civlian lossess make a little part of it though. Ofcourse I dont regard terrorist PKK idiots as civilans.

You want to eliminate the Kurdish identity from Turkey, which is why you do not want the distinction between Kurdish and Turkish. Because now everybody is recognized as a Turk, and must speak Turkish act Turkish and do everything Turkish, only then he or she is a good "Kurd".

Regarding everyone Turkish was a right step in fact, what we Turks did wrong was not allowing dual existence of identities. And I do not want a distinction between Turkish and Kurdish. Who in his right mind wants a distinction between the people in his own country. Talking Kurdish in Turkey must be and now is a god-given right but The main stream is Turkish the state is Turkish and official language is Turkish. The Turks in China for example are not Turks but Chinese Turks. Their official language is Chinese. Simple as that..

[kerkuk_kurdista]

800.000 Kurdish people fled to border. You dont believe me ask the other Kurdish participiant of the forum Rudo. It is not about being blind man it is a fact....

And here is where your blinded mind comes to work.

800.000 fleeing Kurds fled after the crush of the uprising in NINETEEN-NINETY-ONE
Halabja massacre occured in 1988.
This is how much you know about us, of course it is not important for you when it happens. Important for you is that it happens.

By the way, Turkish security forces killed more than 300 fleeing Kurds because they weren't allowed to cross the border in the first place when on the other side Republican Guard units were sniping and shelling every Kurdish organism they were seeing. This is not a joke, it has been recorded by many journalists. On one occassion a 8-year old boy was coldbloodedly murdered by a Turkish soldier. That makes me just puke of the Turkish policy.

That may well be. 30.000 people died between the war of Turkish army and PKK. I also know PKK what methods it used. Civlian lossess make a little part of it though. Ofcourse I dont regard terrorist PKK idiots as civilans.

That's just a stupid thought. I mourn as much for a PKK militant as for a Turkish soldier that gets killed in the conflict. Every war has 2 sides, and do not come up with terrorists must not see mercy or whatever. You want to play the USA-Muslim rhetoric with your terrorist stampings. Funny you (most of the Turks) always dislike the USA, but play the same "me-boss-you-servant" game.
Spain started negotiations with ETA
UK started negotiations with IRA
People know how to solve their problems, but Turkey does not want the world to see that they have a Kurdish problem.

Regarding everyone Turkish was a right step in fact, what we Turks did wrong was not allowing dual existence of identities. And I do not want a distinction between Turkish and Kurdish. Who in his right mind wants a distinction between the people in his own country. Talking Kurdish in Turkey must be and now is a god-given right but The main stream is Turkish the state is Turkish and official language is Turkish. The Turks in China for example are not Turks but Chinese Turks. Their official language is Chinese. Simple as that..

Regarding everyone Turkish a right step?
Anyone with another identity is forced to carry an identity that he isn't? You call that policy? Distinction between people is not something wrong, in fact, it is a basic rights a human gets.
- How hardhanded the Iranian government is, it recognizes Kurds as distinct from Persians.
- Switzerland does not call one ethnic group superior to another (Germans,French,Italian,Romansh). The country is brought forward as Confoederatio Helvetica, in LATIN language. To not make one race superior to another.
- The Frisians are a protected minority in Holland and have their own province with their language as an official language besides Dutch.
- In Iraq the Kurds have an own federal state and Kurdish is an official language. Even under Saddam they were recognized as distinct from Arabs.

- Israel has 2 official languages, Hebrew and Arabic
The website of the Israeli government is in both Hebrew AND Arabic
Streets signs and names in Israel are in both Hebrew and Arabic
Israeli banknotes are in Hebrew AND Arabic

Turkey bears none of these qualities regarding Kurds. And you find it rediculous when I ask for the normal basic right of getting my identity?

[elendil]

800.000 fleeing Kurds fled after the crush of the uprising in NINETEEN-NINETY-ONE
Halabja massacre occured in 1988.
This is how much you know about us, of course it is not important for you when it happens. Important for you is that it happens.

By the way, Turkish security forces killed more than 300 fleeing Kurds because they weren't allowed to cross the border in the first place when on the other side Republican Guard units were sniping and shelling every Kurdish organism they were seeing. This is not a joke, it has been recorded by many journalists. On one occassion a 8-year old boy was coldbloodedly murdered by a Turkish soldier. That makes me just puke of the Turkish policy.

Though it is still after the massacre of Halepje I had read the time interval between crushed uprising and Halepje was one year. Not three. My bad then.

As to fleeing 300 Kurds I am sorry that they lost their lives. But a country's border is passed with necessary regulations and visa not by running. If we add up the fact that nothing good but only terrorist came from northeren Iraq to Turkey for many years, Turkish army simply did what the constitioun of any country instructed armed forces to do. Protect the border against trespassing. I dont even mention we saved hundered times the that got killed. The eight year old boy was killed by police in Tunceli(Dersim) if I am not mistaken where as the guy was caught still it is a shame on us that such an event came to pass.
Turkish state policy is a state policy. It is not ethical or a holy book. It is designed to defend the interests of state and people. Kurdish policy in northeren Iraq also makes m puke but this is how the politic are. Simply dirty.

That's just a stupid thought. I mourn as much for a PKK militant as for a Turkish soldier that gets killed in the conflict. Every war has 2 sides, and do not come up with terrorists must not see mercy or whatever. You want to play the USA-Muslim rhetoric with your terrorist stampings. Funny you (most of the Turks) always dislike the USA, but play the same "me-boss-you-servant" game.
Spain started negotiations with ETA
UK started negotiations with IRA
People know how to solve their problems, but Turkey does not want the world to see that they have a Kurdish problem.

An interesting offering of coralliation. Indeed we are like USA in many ways but we are also very different. I do not mourn for PKK militant honestly, no. But I mourn for the Kurdish civilians. Muslim and USA issue is simply different. Kurdish people are not a danger in our eyes, but in the eyes of American people Muslims are stamped as terrorists. This is a very deep subject and deserves another thread.

Spain is at the verge of disentegrating.
UK started negotiations? IRA gave up arms, IRA accepts the identity of British. And they are a terrorist organization in the eyes of the world. Yeah negotiations....

Turkey has a Kurdish problem, Kurds are simply too many to be ignored in Turkey. We see it, do not worry.

Regarding everyone Turkish a right step?
Anyone with another identity is forced to carry an identity that he isn't? You call that policy? Distinction between people is not something wrong, in fact, it is a basic rights a human gets.
- How hardhanded the Iranian government is, it recognizes Kurds as distinct from Persians.
- Switzerland does not call one ethnic group superior to another (Germans,French,Italian,Romansh). The country is brought forward as Confoederatio Helvetica, in LATIN language. To not make one race superior to another.
- The Frisians are a protected minority in Holland and have their own province with their language as an official language besides Dutch.
- In Iraq the Kurds have an own federal state and Kurdish is an official language. Even under Saddam they were recognized as distinct from Arabs.

- Israel has 2 official languages, Hebrew and Arabic
The website of the Israeli government is in both Hebrew AND Arabic
Streets signs and names in Israel are in both Hebrew and Arabic
Israeli banknotes are in Hebrew AND Arabic

Turkey bears none of these qualities regarding Kurds. And you find it rediculous when I ask for the normal basic right of getting my identity?

You misunderstand. Duality of identites is a necessity in the world. For example Belgium, many people reside there, if I am not mistaken Flamans,Wallons and German people. But when you ask them what is your nationality, the answer first comes as Belgiuq. Which is an identity that gives them a reason to stay together and protect their country.
As to Saddam's rights, heh, it only stamped you as targets and inferior citizens where in Turkey where we disregarded your identity, a Kurd became president, vice president and foreign affairs ministers and many more official rank. Dont get me wrong, distinction is your right in terms of identity, you are a Kurd naturally, but if born in Turkey a Turkish Kurd,likewise a Turk in Turkmenistan is Turkmen while a Turk in Turkey is Turkish. People not to make way to racism in a country must carry a identity that will unify them, else there will be conflict in times of poverty if not in rich times.

[Bulgarian]

Why cant Kurds just be Kurds?

Why do they have to be: Turkish Kurds, Iranian Kurds, Iraqi Kurds and Syrian Kurds?


Please tell me how many schools in Turkey teach Kurdish?
How many television channels are 100% Kurdish?
How can Kurds retain their identity if they only learn to speak Turkish?


How can Kurds retain their identity if millions of them are kicked out of their town and villages in the Kurdish south east and forced to live in the Turkish west?

I cant see how Turkey is helping the Kurds retain their identity?

[kerkuk_kurdista]

Though it is still after the massacre of Halepje I had read the time interval between crushed uprising and Halepje was one year. Not three. My bad then.

As to fleeing 300 Kurds I am sorry that they lost their lives. But a country's border is passed with necessary regulations and visa not by running. If we add up the fact that nothing good but only terrorist came from northeren Iraq to Turkey for many years, Turkish army simply did what the constitioun of any country instructed armed forces to do. Protect the border against trespassing. I dont even mention we saved hundered times the that got killed. The eight year old boy was killed by police in Tunceli(Dersim) if I am not mistaken where as the guy was caught still it is a shame on us that such an event came to pass.
Turkish state policy is a state policy. It is not ethical or a holy book. It is designed to defend the interests of state and people.

The whole world was watching how Saddam was terminating uprising Shia Arabs and Kurds. It was in the world news, do not come with the justification that PKK trespassing borders.
There were as you said 800.000 people, for almost 100 days in the mountains before Turkey agreed the UN to open it's borders. In the first place, Turkey even refused. The killings were not in Dersim (man, you just don't know even your own country), they were on the border of Iraqi and Turkish Kurdistan. Sirnak and Hakkari provinces.
And if you still stick to the point that people fleeing from Saddam must not enter Turkey but should rather die, than it's up to you and shows your image against Kurds.

Kurdish policy in northeren Iraq also makes m puke but this is how the politic are. Simply dirty.

And care to explain what fore?
Because it's the first Kurdish self-governing area? Because you see that Kurds have a political entity? Because you don't know how to hate a people of 40 million that seeks a political recognition in the world?
I'm sorry but Iraqi Kurdistan has suffered from continious Turkish bombardments since it's creation. Napalm bombings against villages and shepherds were used frequently, of course constantly justified by the claim that there are PKK members. I know how many civilians have lost their lives.

An interesting offering of coralliation. Indeed we are like USA in many ways but we are also very different. I do not mourn for PKK militant honestly, no. But I mourn for the Kurdish civilians. Muslim and USA issue is simply different. Kurdish people are not a danger in our eyes, but in the eyes of American people Muslims are stamped as terrorists. This is a very deep subject and deserves another thread.

Agree we are deepening into another subject.

Spain is at the verge of disentegrating.

And does Spain call Basques, mountains Spaniards?
I think you mean Catalonia is having more and more autonomy, well if Turkey gave that bit only to us, Turkey would be more developed and developed each day.
But why are you ignoring the fact that Spain is negotiating with the ETA? Doesn't the ETA also have hundreds of bombing allegations?

UK started negotiations? IRA gave up arms, IRA accepts the identity of British. And they are a terrorist organization in the eyes of the world. Yeah negotiations....

PKK offered many things to do (including the arms downput), but Turkey did not accept. Turkey is a state which cannot be criticized, because there have never been reforms by itself.

Turkey has a Kurdish problem, Kurds are simply too many to be ignored in Turkey. We see it, do not worry.

Good to hear at least you care about us.

You misunderstand. Duality of identites is a necessity in the world. For example Belgium, many people reside there, if I am not mistaken Flamans,Wallons and German people. But when you ask them what is your nationality, the answer first comes as Belgiuq. Which is an identity that gives them a reason to stay together and protect their country.

Look, I know this much and much better than you. The reason why we do not want to identify ourselves as Turks, Iraqis, Syrians or Iranians is because people are going to think we actually have chosen to live in these countries while it is a well known fact that we all were forced to carry an identity we do not want and have nothing Turkish,Iraqi Syrian or Iranian to feel so much pride for that country.
If somebody asks a Kurd from Turkey his nationality, he does not want to say Turk, rather he maybe say I am a Turkeyic, not a Turk. Which is why the term Iraqi is more reasonable to carry for a Kurd. Because it explains that he is from a geographical area. If Turkey was called Anatolia, I bet many Kurds would carry that nationality. I'm sorry, go ask another people to carry the identity of TURK, do not expect any goods.

As to Saddam's rights, heh, it only stamped you as targets and inferior citizens where in Turkey where we disregarded your identity,

No, instead you called us Mountainious Turks

a Kurd became president, vice president and foreign affairs ministers and many more official rank.

In the same way that Hitler was a Jew.
If someone wants to become president in Turkey, he must still deny that there are Kurds, only speak Turkish, pray the Turkish flag and pray towards Ataturks tomb. So much "Kurdish" that has left from that person. Saddam could also have Kurdish grandparents, who knows. Saladin was also born in the same city (Tikrit) where Saddam was born.

Dont get me wrong, distinction is your right in terms of identity, you are a Kurd naturally, but if born in Turkey a Turkish Kurd,

It would be nice if you recognized us.

[kerkuk_kurdista]

Why cant Kurds just be Kurds?

Why do they have to be: Turkish Kurds, Iranian Kurds, Iraqi Kurds and Syrian Kurds?


Please tell me how many schools in Turkey teach Kurdish?
How many television channels are 100% Kurdish?
How can Kurds retain their identity if they only learn to speak Turkish?


How can Kurds retain their identity if millions of them are kicked out of their town and villages in the Kurdish south east and forced to live in the Turkish west?

I cant see how Turkey is helping the Kurds retain their identity?

Indeed, look at Palestinians. They are only so few compared to Kurds, but they bomb Israel much more than Kurds, hijack planes, kill athletes and do much more violent stuff.
He should be glad that it are Kurds and not Palestinians that are mistreated in Turkey.