The Great Flood

[Hovik]

One cannot help but take note of THE GREAT FLOOD...

In the recent days following Orhan Pamuk's winning of the Nobel Prize and the French Parliment criminalizing the denial of the Armenian Genocide in France the same way denial of the Jewish Holocaust is punished, Turks have flooded this forum with anger and hate directed at Armenians.

I just wanted to ask these Turks, why is it that it takes a country deciding it's position on the AG to wake you up and swing you into action - however full of hatred that action may be?

If you know so well, through education and research that the AG didn't happen, why don't you spend more time discussing it in places like this forum? Why don't you cite books that you've read and unbiased eyewitness accounts that you've reviewed? Why don't you leave your hatred and anger at the door and come here to discuss this as mature, civilized human beings?

Why are your hearts so full of deep-rooted hatred?

[Kharpert]

I've never read an Orhan Pamuk book, nor do I know the criteria for deciding literary Nobel prizes, but some critics of Pamuk are quoted to have said that Pamuk's Nobel prize is "purely political". They may be at least partially right.

But of course, that's not the least of an excuse to be angry at Armenians, since I highly doubt Armenians had much to do with the nominating committee in the first place.

[hitite]

The nobel prize and the French Parliamentary resolution came on the same day. Sad and strange coincidence, however anger towards Armenians via Pamuks nobel victory is very indirect if not unrelated. People in Turkey are angry at Pamuk for for saying that a million Armenians and some thousands of Kurds were killed in Turkey without somehow stating referances and proof which IMHO he actually could readily have done. They are angry at him because he is a story writer and not a historian and coz he has left these words unbacked. I feel no anger whatsoever, I'm just pissed off coz of all this reaction towards this guy; everybody should be able to say whatever they think. I am happy he got the prize but I could have been happier.

[Hovik]

The nobel prize and the French Parliamentary resolution came on the same day. Sad and strange coincidence, however anger towards Armenians via Pamuks nobel victory is very indirect if not unrelated. People in Turkey are angry at Pamuk for for saying that a million Armenians and some thousands of Kurds were killed in Turkey without somehow stating referances and proof which IMHO he actually could readily have done. They are angry at him because he is a story writer and not a historian and coz he has left these words unbacked. I feel no anger whatsoever, I'm just pissed off coz of all this reaction towards this guy; everybody should be able to say whatever they think. I am happy he got the prize but I could have been happier.

Well, like you say, he's not a historian - it's not really his responsibility to bring proof... and if he 'readily could have done it' then that means you acknowledge that the evidence is there. If the evidence is there then what the hell is the problem?

[Kharpert]

hitite, it's a novel he's writing after all. It would be kind of awkward if a novel was cluttered and stuffed with historical footnotes, don't you think? Imagine how unreadable a Tom Clancy novel would have become if that was the standard format.

Although I'm kinda upset about the reaction, too. I wish people would just accept his award for what it is.

[phantom]

[QUOTE=watercolours]x QUOTE]

Watercolours, the Republic of Turkiye was 1000% against any discussion of the issue with anyone until finally last year when it realized that it was being left behind in a sea of acknowledgment of this crime. We, the Armenian peopel, had been asking the Turks for a dialog for 5 decades since the early 1960s. We had been asking them to open their archives for 5 decades. We had been asking them to open their minds for 5 decades. Nothing, nothing but denial. And now that the world isn't buying the Turkish lies anymore, all of a sudden the Turkish Republic wants to have a so-called "international committee" to flesh out the truth. It's a little late. While Turkey was spending its energy trying to hide the truth, the independent academic community studied this history. And guess what they have concluded virtually unanimously: it was a Genocide. So the time to debate it among an "international committee" is long gone. The debate is over. The historians have made their conclusions. Meanwhile, Turkey has had 90 years to purge its archives, which were closed during this entire period. But if you want to study the history, go right ahead. You don't need Armenian approval to do it. Please do it.

[phantom]

x?

Your following the usual pattern of the denier. Your now in the desperation phase.

[HAN]

Are you asking if I am desperate? No. Go ahead ask whatever you want. We are old neighbours, aren't we?

[hitite]

Well, like you say, he's not a historian - it's not really his responsibility to bring proof... and if he 'readily could have done it' then that means you acknowledge that the evidence is there. If the evidence is there then what the hell is the problem?

Well there is no problem Hovik if you want a direct answer to your above question. How many Armenians are left in East Anatolia? Thats enough proof to me and I agree that many many Armenians were killed or sent away. Nobody can deny that.

[hitite]

hitite, it's a novel he's writing after all. It would be kind of awkward if a novel was cluttered and stuffed with historical footnotes, don't you think? Imagine how unreadable a Tom Clancy novel would have become if that was the standard format.

Although I'm kinda upset about the reaction, too. I wish people would just accept his award for what it is.

Kharpert, he said that stuff in an interview not in one of his novels. I would like to accept his reward for what it is but I also have this uneasy feeling abou the fellows saying this stuff for publicities sake. I have heard that this sort of political or social outbreaks "assist" in getting a nobel. Since I dont know him personally I will always have this doubt about how pure his intentions were. Why did he not just outright admit to a genocide rather than saying millions were killed?