The Great Flood

[Hovik]

Ever heard of Lemkin?

Except for the few total idiots who say Armenians were never killed in their homeland, most Turks here seem to only disagree with the wording. Was it "Genocide" or was it not...

I have a question for those of you who are scared of admitting that word... even after all the 'proofs' are out there for you to absorb yet you ignore the proofs, reals and factss.

The word "Genocide" was created because of what happened to Armenians, the Armenian Genocide was the event that swung Raphael Lemkin into action to create a word that described something GREATER THAN MASSACRE, GREATER THAN KILLING, GREATER THAN MURDER.

The words ARMENIA and GENOCIDE are the same thing. They are inseperable words. So when you sit here and say it wasn't Genocide, how can you not feel completely ignorant, completely out of touch with "the reals"?

How many of you have read Raphael Lemkins story as it relates to him creating the word Genocide specifically for what happened to the Armenians, and to be applied to other such horrid acts in the future?

[HAN]

We're still looking at the rope-walker

and missing what's going on beneath.
Salonika was the centre of Young Turk movement and if you examine the population records you'll find out that Salonika was one of the places Jews lived in large numbers. I guess you all heard about Salonika Donmehs.

[Kharpert]

Where the hell do you get your information?

Where did you read what you are telling us?

Do have any sources that support you?

[Tongue]

I've given up.. The damage is done.. They're way too brainwashed to be fixed.. It's a waste of time to even try to communicate with them. Give them a week, they'll be gone.

[Yavrum]

Sigh - I know what you mean. It's a whole generation with a rewriting of the history book in their hands. You know what they say, the winners write history the way they want, and certainly Turkey is doing that because they can. Reminds me of when Hollywood, I think back in the 40s, attempted to make an epic movie based on the fact-based book, The 40 days of Musa Dagh. Right away the Turkish government was fast on their heels in protest. Quickly, the project was squashed and a little known movie was made instead, not the blockbuster that they originally intended. Turkey has moved fast everytime to make sure nothing gets passed them. It's pathetic really. Why would a whole government work so hard to keep a Hollywood movie from being made? Of course, the book is based on a true story and it wouldn't put Turkey in a good light. This is their M.O., their Modus operandi. It's always this way and it will always be this way. They also say that historians write history largely from gleaning personal diaries, journals, writings, diaries of dignitaries, etc. So we must keep writing and putting out our collective stories. One day the world will hear it.

[phantom]

PS2 : Past is to take lesson from, it is not to cause hatred, we should look at the future and live for the futere not for the past. which doesnt mean that we should forget it. We should take lessons (which obviously needs clarification of the past not making it blurry by putting it into politic games)


The history is not rewritten in Turkey or anything.. In my whole education there wasnt any written issue about AG, they planned to put a lesson about it but it was ridicolous ofcourse. What you dont understand is there are respected historians in Turkey (my teachers) who researched in this issue and tutored us. I believe their honesty, they werent brainwashers.

But still If Turkey ignored this reality and tried to hide it for years from us, hid our history from us we will accept it and we will be angry with goverment.

For me latest events show that armenians are the ones who change history, when they are invited to discuss they say it is already decided, when they hear sth against their opinions they plug their ears, i dont. The sources you show me dont satisfy me.

My sources are the goverment archives of turkey. In addition to several web pages and other historians.

You also have severel (thousands) web pages and historians but you dont have the archives.



Why all the world accepts genocide ?

Example :

My cousin is the Turkish students comitee leader in America. They decided to hang poster in the city saying "If politcians would have written the history we would think that the world is flat" They hanged them at night. When they woke up in the morning they were replaced with AG posters. This event is real.

Please also read my submit in the German soldiers cofession thread bla bla.. The Last sentence...

What will satisfy you? The reason why Armenians are not taking the bait from the Turkish government is because we know it is not genuine. The same government is putting people on trial for saying anything about this case. How can such a government be objective and open to a real dialog? If we actually believed and could trust the Turkish government, then we would engage them.

As for the archives. They were completely closed for 90 years, and the Turkish government was its sole guardian. During that time the Turkish government went to great lengths to intervene in any discussion or publication of documents, publications, or even movies relating to what happened to the Armenians. It is, for example, a documented fact that in the 1930s, the Turkish government intervened in the making of the movie The 40 Days of Musa Dagh in the U.S. In other words, they were so keen on keeping this matter under the lid, that they successfully opposed private initiatives in foreign countries relating to those horrible events. This is not my opinion, it is an established fact. Do you trust that such a government would leave any trace of evidence in its exclusively controlled archives that would incriminate its predecessor?

[phantom]

What about Armenia? Can we say that any Azerbaijanese lives there in peace? I know from my Azeri acquaintances that there isn't any Azeri in Armenia becuse they were either got killed or sent away. And this happens at the end of 20th century where human rights and democracy are the most important values.

No Azeris were ever harmed in Armenia. They were deported just as every Armenian from Azerbaijan was deported . . . after pogroms and massacres first.

[phantom]

What about Armenia? Can we say that any Azerbaijanese lives there in peace? I know from my Azeri acquaintances that there isn't any Azeri in Armenia becuse they were either got killed or sent away. And this happens at the end of 20th century where human rights and democracy are the most important values.

What does the war between Karabagh and Azerbaijan have to do with the Genocide in 1915? The biggest difference is that this time the Armenians didn't take it lying down. It would have been another Genocide if the Armenians had not defended themselves in Karabagh.

[Hovik]

Back to the topic of the thread- the flood...

On the other hand, we haven't had this many active members in a while. That includes Armenians...