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May Peace be upon us

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  • #1

    May Peace be upon us

    I am new at this forum. I am really excited to be a part of a forum, the most spoken issue over the world. Let me introduce myself first. I was born in U.S.A at 1976. My parents were turkish immigrants and they finally gave up to their home-sickness when I was 6 years old. I lived in Turkey for 16 years and finished my high school education there. I came back to U.S.A in 1998 and living here since. I do not have an formal english education even though I have attended private school in Turkey. So I hope you guys can bear my english. I grew up being really tied to traditional way of Turkish Life. I am a very devote Muslim, but reject the institutionalised religion. I believe Islam is a very perfect religion designed to bloom harmony and peace among people. Unfortunately, the wrong doing of Islam started as soon as Prophet Muhammed (s.a.v) died. All his teachings were diminished by the time four Caliph era ended. The Jihad (Struggle) turned into warfare. The religion was tried to spread by conquering lands and assimilate the local population. Thus, the real meaning of Jihad was diminished. Christianity was born the same way as Islam did. Spread the love among people in the name of Glorious God. Unfortunately, Christianity took the same course as the religion fell into the hands of pagan ROMANS. Pagans spread their seeds in all divine religions. This caused only one thing to the day, hatred is among all of us. I believe in pure religion, only one creator and I know all these things that took course in the history was not what God wanted to see. I say my religion is ISLAM because it means peace and I still practice its requirements like worshipping, fasting, helping the needy and such things. But I refuse what scholars are saying, Islam is the only true religion and everybody must become Muslims. This is true for Christianity, too. THIS IS THE REAL PROBLEM OF THIS WORLD. Religions should not be measured with how many members they have. The institutions are competing to raise their numbers. Who cares if there is over 3 billion christians, 1 Billion Muslims. Let people practice whatever religion with peace and love. I KNOW EVERYBODY IS CONFUSED WHERE I AM TRYING TO GET. But here is what I am trying to say, during the history all wars started in the name of religion. People hated each other because of differences. People still can not get over this.Many sad things happen in the past. People should learn from their wrongdoings and try to undo it. Hatred feeds hatred. In this forum, I believe I am going to learn a lot of things. I believe history is a tool in people's hand. It could be rewritten many times by people as the way they wish. Hence, my standing in this forum is I am a guy with emphaty. I feel for both sides sufferrings in that era.
    I am ready to discuss everything openly within mutual respect to each other.
    Let the peaceful dialogue go on forever.
    .
    Tags: None
  • #2
    Welcome to the forum Goarave
    Looking forward to reading your posts.
    "All truth passes through three stages:
    First, it is ridiculed;
    Second, it is violently opposed; and
    Third, it is accepted as self-evident."

    Arthur Schopenhauer (1788-1860)

    Comment

    • #3
      Thanks for welcoming me,

      I hope you read my first post. I am always in favor of nations coming together and live in peace. There has been many attempts from both sides to get together and discuss the genocide issue. But always nonsense prides overwhelmed the real issue and always failed. I believe people power can overcome the governments power. This is the issue with turkish people. From my experienece in Turkey, I have seen ethnic groups and moderate muslim turks fet very well along. My best friends,somehow, was from ethnic groups. This is even true here in U.S.A. I am not trying to demagogise my point but I believe this issue should be brought to the regular people level. There should public debates with real life experiences. At the government level, both sides brought up the issue to the level of hostility. There is only one reason why borders are closed between Armenia and Turkey:Freakin' Politics. I've seen many threads posted here both hostile turkish posts and armenian posts. I believe those are nothing but a moment of pride ego. Turks get hostile when they see profile with recaptured turkish lands and armenians get hostile when turks start to talk about denial and heroism. Overall, at least at this forum, in the name of humanity I believe we can create a dialogue that can be taken further. My extensive feed back showed me:

      1) Turkish people are not in denial but defense. They feel they are being attacked unfairly and this is nothing but anti-turk sentiment. Most of the turks living right now can not even interpret why so many people die in the cause of left-right issues prior to military coupes' in 1960's, 70's and 80's. Now they are facing the genocide issue along with those.

      2) Armenians, naturally, reopen the history books and judging the innocent lives of the past. At the same time we all know both sides suffered hostility from Ottoman government at that time. I believe Ottoman Government to the extensive level has a lot of wrong doing.(I am still researching extensively the issue and need more feed back from both Turks and Armenians)

      3) It is true that americans accept the responsibility over indians but never used the word genocide. At the same time, France, the perpetrator of Algerian massacre was on the verge of democracy in 1960's.(Only 40 some years ago. Yet, They have the guts to judge other countries.

      By these simple facts, I understand the reason why Turkish people are in defense on the most spoken issue all over the world. And as from where you are standing I totally understand the Armenian cause.

      Unfortunately, today the innocent lives are still being claimed all over the world. For Example, 3000 U.S. soldiers and over 500000 lives of Iraq whether innocent or not, has been claimed since the struggle over oil started. This week, very known artist burned himself in Chicago in the name of his cause and throw himself out of window to the death, just rest his case by saying that everybody is going to question my death for this cause but they are still going to underestimate all those innocent lives around the world.

      I am still naive in this forum, but I believe my point are going to be more clear as I progress and get some feed back.

      Hoping one day this earth considered PLANET EARTH AND ONLY ONE RACE:HUMANITY.

      Comment

      • #4
        GOARAVE - your first post rings a chord in me...confirming my belief that all religion stems from man - and is continually manipulated by man towards his own (nefarious) ends.

        Comment

        • #5
          Oil and Water: Two Faiths, One God

          Two days ago, I attended this seminar by professor Amir Hussain on his new book "Oil and Water: Two Faiths one God". Very interesting. It's about Islam and Christianity, and how similar they really are and yet, people of both faiths always want to emphasize on the differences and how they are complete opposites, etc.

          Comment

          • #6
            GOARAVE,
            I believe you struck a chord about religion and it's distorted use by rulers over tens of centuries to control and manipulate populations. The simple messages of the various "Great Teachers" : Jesus, Mohammed, Buddha et al, is a harmonious existence, tolerance of others and, most importantly, LOVE for ones fellow man. These lessons have been so fundamentally changed over the years and yes, for nefarious purposes, and now we still have situations worldwide where not just Christian fights Muslim fights Jew but, Sunni fights Shia, Protestant fights Catholic and so on.
            Religions very earliest appearance in history was when populations grew, tribes became more settled and larger and the ruling classes needed to control their cities. Were the people more likely to obey the king or the King who was selected by god to rule? Of course, the latter.
            Most religions worldwide share many elements of their beliefs, indeed Judaism, Christianity and Islam share more than most and have truly shared origins. The common thread in all religions is a workable moral code.
            The calls to Jihad, the Spanish Inquisition and the "fear factor" used to cow the populations were introduced over time to further the interests of the ruling powers.
            Is it not true that prior to the Crusades, Jew, Christian, Muslim and others lived together in cities throughout the world?
            Yes, innocent lives are still being claimed in the name of religion worldwide, the awful events in Iraq, Palestine, Darfur for example. The Roman Catholic Church's stance on birth-control which basically is sentencing millions of Catholics, especially in Africa, to be exposed to Aids.

            If we want a better future, we need to plan it, to plan it we need to understand it, to truly understand our future we need to understand our past.
            Without understanding our past, how can we ensure that events are not repeated?

            If only the mass of the people could communicate with each other to work towards your very well stated goal of : ONE PLANET , ONE RACE.

            Comment

            • #7
              To Steph

              It's good to know there are many people out there that believes in humanity.
              Originally posted by steph View Post
              GOARAVE,
              I believe you struck a chord about religion and it's distorted use by rulers over tens of centuries to control and manipulate populations. The simple messages of the various "Great Teachers" : Jesus, Mohammed, Buddha et al, is a harmonious existence, tolerance of others and, most importantly, LOVE for ones fellow man. These lessons have been so fundamentally changed over the years and yes, for nefarious purposes, and now we still have situations worldwide where not just Christian fights Muslim fights Jew but, Sunni fights Shia, Protestant fights Catholic and so on.
              Religions very earliest appearance in history was when populations grew, tribes became more settled and larger and the ruling classes needed to control their cities. Were the people more likely to obey the king or the King who was selected by god to rule? Of course, the latter.
              Most religions worldwide share many elements of their beliefs, indeed Judaism, Christianity and Islam share more than most and have truly shared origins. The common thread in all religions is a workable moral code.
              The calls to Jihad, the Spanish Inquisition and the "fear factor" used to cow the populations were introduced over time to further the interests of the ruling powers.
              Is it not true that prior to the Crusades, Jew, Christian, Muslim and others lived together in cities throughout the world?
              Yes, innocent lives are still being claimed in the name of religion worldwide, the awful events in Iraq, Palestine, Darfur for example. The Roman Catholic Church's stance on birth-control which basically is sentencing millions of Catholics, especially in Africa, to be exposed to Aids.

              If we want a better future, we need to plan it, to plan it we need to understand it, to truly understand our future we need to understand our past.
              Without understanding our past, how can we ensure that events are not repeated?

              If only the mass of the people could communicate with each other to work towards your very well stated goal of : ONE PLANET , ONE RACE.

              Comment

              • #8
                Seems you avoid the main purpose of this forum. Why is that? Softening people up?

                Comment

                • #9
                  Varouj,
                  I'm certainly not avoiding the main purpose of the forum, simply responding to a post.
                  What do you mean by softening people up??
                  I asked for assistance a few days ago regarding my own research into the Genocide, no replies so far.
                  soooooo, I'll respond to , what I believed , to be an honest statement.

                  My reason to ne on this forum is :
                  I'm trying to gather information about the Turkish invasion of Eastern Armenia at the end of WW1 and the contibutions made to their success by the Bolshevik, British, French and American governments.
                  However, if you dislike the idea of discussion and investigation and wish only to reproduce items from the world's media, so be it.

                  Varouj, your comments have hurt me, your pictogram looks very impressive, especially when you're probably in CA.

                  Comment

                  • #10
                    Barev Varouj,
                    In England there is a saying : "If you cannot improve the silence, don't speak".

                    Comment

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