The Assassination of Hrant Dink

[ScythianVizier]

Most Turks seem unable to blame the facsism and adventurism of the leadership of the CUP which got them into the war to begin with.

Fascism is not a term invented by the Turks or by the Ottoman Empire. If one needs to pile up the reasons for the emergence of the "Young Turk Administration", then one must wish to address the fascist and genocidal tendencies eixsted in Western Europe thoughout 19th and most of the 20th Centuries, which also necessiated the Ottomans to import brutal methods (from Europe) in order to cope with the devastating impact of western imperialism in general.

As a person with Karachay-Balkar (a bit of Kumyk/Crimean Tatar) background whose forefathers were forced to emigrate to Turkey back in 1860s (broadly known as the Circassian Genocide), I have to assert that more dimensional approach to the problem of genocide and genocidal tendencies must be established since those are (still) all interrelated to the problems of contemporary societies as proven in recent years in Bosnia, Chechnya, and Rwanda.

Nevertheless, let us all agree that any nation could commit a genocide since it is ultimately what so called "modern nationalism" is capable of. In that regard, being a part of a national identity is one of the blurred tools of modern societies that could be used to utilize discrimination amongst different social layers. In the final analysis, I believe that we all have to focus on being more human than being anything else since this is the only way to comprehend the crimes that are related to the aggregate past of humanity.

[1.5 million]

Sythian - while I understand what you are implying - that Muslims/Turks too suffered at the hands of various Christians prior to the Armenian Genocide - and I very much agree that the expulsions of Turks/Muslims from various places (along with Ottoman defeats and the collapse of Empire) need to be studied and understood as contributing factors to the attitudes of CUP/Ottomans and Turks in general that led to an environment and attitudes where such a total genocide of Armenians could be contimplated and undertaken - I disagree with the implication that the Ottomans/Turks somehow learned brutality, massacre and supression of native peoples frm the Europeans or as the result of Turkihs/Muslim mistreatment by such. Do I really need to present the evidence of such behavious by the Turks prior to the advent of European nationalism and prior to any campaigns on the part of Russians or Balkan/Aegean nations breaking free of Ottoman rule? I should think not. I do agree that Turkish nationalism and the CUP as a nationalistic and race exclusivistic (Pan-Turan/Pan-Turk) party and government had its philosophical roots in the various European (and Slavic) nationalisms of the day. And I also agree that the recent history of Turkish/Muslim expulsions from conquored lands and the savagry experienced by the common lot as well as the bitterness of the displaced ruling elite all played vital factors in fluencing attitudes that allowed for such a thing as the Armenian genocide to happen. These all must be studied, understood and included in any holistic overview of the Armenian Genocide. However to attemtp to (directly) blame the Europeans or make excuses based on these (tragic) preceeding events - as it pertains to the total societal genocide commited against the Armenians is misplaced. We undertand that there were prior massacres and expulsions....but we also understand that Ottoman Turks commited such large scale massacres and terrorization against much of the ethnic peoples it came to rule over PRIOR to these events and that many of the freed peoples and the peoples who fought with the Russians were themselves prior victims of Turkish/Ottoman brutality...and of course we can take it all the way back to the 1400s...Now I also understand that much of why Turks have difficulty comming to terms with being the perpetrators of great crimes against humanity is that the history just prior top this period and to some extyent over this period and through the Turkish War of Independence is one where a great many Turks suffered and where Turks began to adopt a world view where they were the victims of Imperialism and nationalsim - and of course there is a great deal of truth to this. However categorizing the Ottoman Armenians and what was done to them by the CUP (and before by the Sultan) into this paradigm is somewhat problomatic. Armenians as a group never carried out these large scale massacres of Turks (regrdless of what the wartime and post war Turkish propoganda claims). Yes there were Armenian revolutionaries and some killing and violence associated with them beginaing in the late 1800s (as a reaction to mistreatment, massacres and brutality being commited against the Armenian communities) and Armenians did fight with the Russians in WWI - primarily those who were Russian citizens - but yes some "volunteers" of various sorts - including from Anatolia - and these forces along with the Ottoman forces along the Eastern front participated in a war that included a great deal of brutality and massacre of ethnic civilians of all stripes, and of course later in the war, after the breakdown of order in Russia and after the Genocide many Armenians - those from Russia and those who survived the Genocide and escaped did form into military bands and did commit atrocities (and these are what various Turks most remember) and this continued to some degree after the war and into the period where the nationalist movement was fighting against the new Armenian State over territory in the East. So yes OK - we understand that these thinigs all occured. However, still, considering these events and events prior (of Turkish suffering) is one thing - and obviously needs to be part of the diologue - but for (educated) Turks (who really should know better) to continue to deny the Genocide - which is an entirely different and much more comprhensive and brutal thing than any of the massacres and expulsions that had gone on before it and far more as well then any of the massacres that occured after (by both sides) - (and attempt to either rationalize or justify it or to place blame outside of the Turkish sphere) is to me still entirely wrong and quite dispicable. Many of us do understyand the environment - understand the events surounding the collapse of the ottoman Empire and the great number of refugees and hardships experienced....we also understand the poison of nationalism (even for Armenians) - and I for one do agree that all of these things belong in the discussion - but none of these things releases Turks/Turkey from blame for the very great crimes - and betrayal - commited against the Armenian people of Anatolia. If you and other Turks truly understood how our nation and people were utterly destroyed - and for primairly political and economic reasons - not for the poor excuse often given that Armenains were rebelling and were a military threat - as this was untrue - then you would still apologize to Armenians and beg for forgiveness - accept the blame (as a nation) as you should ...and then we can mutually talk about and explore the history and (perhaps) our mutual pain. But until this is done it is really quite ludicrous to expect Armenians to stop demanding Turkish recognition and apology - as none of these other events changes the culpibility of Turks in the crime - and in this case Armenians were the victim. That Turks were victimized by others prior to this time OK - we understand - and of course these things all factored into the environment of the time that allowed an even greater crime to be commited against the Armenians and is a major factor in why the Turks deny and say they will never accept blame. But the lumping of the Armenians into this in this manner is largely misplaced - we are not to blame for the Trukish misfortune - but Turks are certainly very much to blame for ours...

[Gavur]

Because of blind nationalism Turkey has become a very dangerous place 8TH MOST DANGERES IN THE WORLD TO VISIT!even for Turks.Its not worth saving,ITS BEYOND SAVING!(They put down rabid dogs dont they?
like VELI KUCUK!)

[ScythianVizier]

1.5 Million,

Alexander the Great destroyed Theba and exterminated its victims in order to set an example for the other Greek city settlements. In fact, during the Middle Ages, looting cities and villages have been the parts of wars, conquests, and raids for each party. Thus, such brutality and massacres were also utilized by the Crusades and the Mongols in large scales. Similarly, multi-cultural or multi-religious empires like the Romans, Byzantines, and the Ottomans used such methods from time to time to suppress their subjects.

However, these sorts of medieval massacres are not what I refer. I refer to emergence of modern concept of genocide, which was a natural consequence of the colonist mindset. In precise manner, it was such mindset which enabled the colonists to raise the sufficient material and human capital that triggered the Industrialization Era. So, it was not some coincidence that the Industrail Revolution did happen in the most advanced colonist, namely the British Empire.

Finally, I dont break down Industrialization and Nation Building Era of the 19th and 20th centuries like you do. For me, the modern concept of genocide begins with the early industrialization age (1780s). In that regard, I see the plantation camps as some proto-concentration camps at where the notions like FORDISM were evolved. Respectfully, I believe that the other side of the "European Enlightment" had devastating impact on inhabitants of Africa, Asia, Americas, Crimea, Cuacasus, Middle East, Balkans, Anatolia, and finally in Europe.

[Vogelgrippe]

DINK is mourned by many Turks because he was a different kind of person, a great person actually, nothing like you and the likes of you. He thouroughly believed in dialogue between Turks and Armenians and believed that this could never be done politically but rather on the personal level. He was against the hatred between Turks and Armenians and as an Armenian living in Turkey was the bravest Armenian I know who could openly describe the 1915 events as Genocide. So before you use Hrants death as another reason for your hate mongering look back at what this man has said before you equate yourself with what he was all about. If he had read what I quoted you saying I'm sure he would roll an issue of AGOS and give it to you for your own shoving.

While a great coalition of sensible, intellectual, and honest-minded Turks are coming together behind the memory of Hrant Dink, it is too early and to useless to make such shameless remarks like 1.5 million did. Let the time be the judge of whether all sides learn from the memory of Hrant Dink.

In this regard, I have not much to add to hitite's succinct remarks.

I also have a suggestion, or a request, from Hovik and Joseph as the forum's moderators. Please seperate the postings on this thread which honor Dink's memory and personality, from those which contain personal insults, regardless of whether they are directed at Turks or Armenians.

In this way it would be possible to have at least one thread which would remain unstained from unnecessary Turco-Armenian slur exchange, which was without doubt one of the major wishes of Hrant Dink.

[Hovik]

Fascism is not a term invented by the Turks or by the Ottoman Empire. If one needs to pile up the reasons for the emergence of the "Young Turk Administration", then one must wish to address the fascist and genocidal tendencies eixsted in Western Europe thoughout 19th and most of the 20th Centuries, which also necessiated the Ottomans to import brutal methods (from Europe) in order to cope with the devastating impact of western imperialism in general.

Not invented, you're right, but definitely exaggerated by the Turks and the Ottoman Empire.

If you are trying to asser that the Young Turks learned how to commit Genocide from the Western Europeans, I think you need to do some research in Ottoman History. The economic, social and national status of the Ottoman Empire drove them to Genocide. And the only think coming effecting them from Western Europe was their fear that the Gavur of the empire were actually experiencing a renessiance of literature, thought and culture thanks to Western Europe - something that scared the hell out of the Ottomans and particularly the Young Turks.

If you're looking for reasons to expain the CUP's Genocidal policy - start with fear. Start with Turkey getting their asses handed to them in the Balkans, start with the economic disaster caused by the debasing of the coin system and the Sivis year crisis, start with racism and religious hatred towards Gavur, start with pan turanism.

As a person with Karachay-Balkar (a bit of Kumyk/Crimean Tatar) background whose forefathers were forced to emigrate to Turkey back in 1860s (broadly known as the Circassian Genocide), I have to assert that more dimensional approach to the problem of genocide and genocidal tendencies must be established since those are (still) all interrelated to the problems of contemporary societies as proven in recent years in Bosnia, Chechnya, and Rwanda.

Nevertheless, let us all agree that any nation could commit a genocide since it is ultimately what so called "modern nationalism" is capable of. In that regard, being a part of a national identity is one of the blurred tools of modern societies that could be used to utilize discrimination amongst different social layers. In the final analysis, I believe that we all have to focus on being more human than being anything else since this is the only way to comprehend the crimes that are related to the aggregate past of humanity.

Damn right, that's what is so scary about Genocide, every nation is capable of it.

Furthermore if we have to focus more on the human being (which I agree with) then we have to start with the human beings ability to admit guilt, to feel compassion and love for other humans, for the human need to inform him/herself about the past and not live in denial. This is a starting point...

[Joseph]

Hrant Dink (1954-1915)
By Khatchig Mouradian

The above date, 1915, is not a typographical mistake.

On Saturday, April 24, 1915, Ottoman-Turkish soldiers arrested about 200
Armenian intellectuals—writers, journalists and community leaders—in
Istanbul, exiling them to the interior of the Ottoman Empire where they
would be killed. The plan was to behead the Armenian community by
annihilating its leadership and then to cleanse the entire population. The
day of the arrests marks the beginning of the Armenian Genocide.

On Friday, Jan. 19, 2007, also in Istanbul, another prominent Armenian
intellectual, Hrant Dink, was assassinated in front of the editorial offices
of his Armenian weekly newspaper Agos.

Hrant Dink is a victim of the Armenian Genocide.

And the Armenian Genocide continues.

Not only because denial is the last phase of Genocide.

But because the killing continues.

It was NOT an individual who killed Hrant Dink. So while Turkish authorities
are looking for a killer out loose in the streets, the real killer is the
Turkish state, which continues to foster a culture of violence,
assassinations, killings, oppression, and denial. The killer is the Turkish
state, which indoctrinates its citizens from an early age that the Armenian
Genocide is a myth, an agenda, pushed by the West to destroy Turkey.

"A bullet has been fired at democracy and freedom of expression," said
Turkish Prime Minister Recep Tayyip Erdogan. Yes, the bullet was Article 301
of the Turkish Penal Code, under which Dink was prosecuted twice.

The person who pulled the trigger was executing the will of the Turkish
state. Like his Prime Minister, government, army and the so-called
“Deep-State,” he wanted to make the world believe that there was no Armenian
Genocide. Like Talaat Pasha, he believed that the Armenian question could be
solved by killing those who made demands.

We shall remember you, Hrant, together with Varoujan, Siamanto, Zohrab and
all the victims of the Armenian Genocide.

The Armenian Weekly
January 20, 2007

[Joseph]

The High Cost of Denial

http://www.tompaine.com/articles/2007/01/23/the_high_cost_of_denial.php

Turkish-Armenian editor Hrank Dink was shot to death last week, apparently by a teenager infused with anger and Turkish nationalism. Dink had been one of the loudest voices in Turkey to insist on recognition of the 1915 genocidal massacres of Armenians.

The killing is a reminder that in order to move on, nations and even communities must make amends for harms done to others. Otherwise the past has a way of insinuating itself into the present with highly unpleasant consequences. Just consider the continuing conflicts that arise from the partially-acknowledged residue of slavery, and the relative closure to the Japanese-American internment to see the difference between amends and lack of amends.

The Turkish refusal to acknowledge the Armenian genocide means that the killing didn’t end in 1915. In 1955, rioters attacked the Armenian and Greek neighborhoods of Istanbul, killing several, injuring many, and hastening the end of Istanbul’s multicultural character. The riots had been organized and supplied by right-wing nationalists in and out of the security forces. In the 1980s, Armenian terrorists assassinated Turkish diplomats in the West, including several in the United States.

Dink himself ran up against the Turkish prohibition on mentioning the genocide. It is deemed to be a violation of Article 301, a particularly noxious law that prohibits the insulting of Turkishness. For the moment, progressive Turks, journalists’ groups and human rights activists have chosen to see Dink’s death as a freedom of expression issue, as it indeed is.

But Turkishness has been the underlying ideology of a century-long campaign of ethnic cleansing of varying degrees of virulence. Asia Minor was a mixture of languages, faiths and body types, and the Ottoman Empire was generally content to leave it so, provided imperial authority was heeded. Post-empire Turkey, on the other hand, demanded that all within its borders renounce their backgrounds and speak Turkish. The penalties for not doing so ranged from extra taxation to death. Turkishness, then, is a doctrine of racial superiority and oppression.

Lest Americans feel too superior over Turks, we can look at our own history of genocide, slavery and racial laws to see a disturbing parallel. But while America is part of the way toward fully acknowledging its racial policies, Turkey is not.

Turks still maintain that while large numbers of Armenians did indeed die in 1915 and thereabouts, they perished through the consequences of war. In their defense, Turks say that ethnic Turks died as well. This is a specious and transparent argument. Millions of Germans died in World War II, including hapless civilians, but that in no way mitigates German genocide.

For decades the only places Armenians, Greeks and Jews could use the word “genocide” were in their diasporic communities. In recent years, some Turkish intellectuals, such as Nobel Prize winner Orhan Pamuk and Hrant Dink, have dared to use the word. All have been charged under Article 301, but with the government still eyeing EU membership, they were not punished.

The second sign that repressive Turkishness may be teetering is that over 100,000 people filled the streets of Istanbul to mourn Dink, and many—even most—of those mourners were not Armenians. Moreover, the President of Turkey denounced the killing quickly and clearly.

Right now, the police are charging 17-year-old Ogun Samast with the crime. But it is not Samast who needs to be tried. Instead, it is the blinding, angry racism of Turkey that bears the guilt. Until Turkey—like any other country—faces its ugly history and its distorted view of the present, there will be more killings. If, on the other hand, there is a commission of truth and reconciliation, then maybe someday Turks can go to the funeral of Turkishness.

--Alec Dubro | Tuesday, January 23, 2007 10:51 AM

[Tongue]

So this is your point of human life... You mean " why should I care about my enemy's people, their children, their women, their values...I only care about me..."

You understand not what you read, but what you want to read.

Please stick to the subject of the thread.

[cem]

to 1.5 million!

Of course - Armenians just haven't a clue - he was a Turk after all - didn't he say so? ...see ya!

dear my brother,
today we were ten thousands of turkish people collected to farewell our brother hrant. however he wanted a silent funeral in his testament, we couldnt help shouting as we are all hrant, we are all armenians.. we walked 8 km all together. i wish, if only, you could also be with us..