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The Assassination of Hrant Dink

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  • #131
    Dear Joseph,

    I understand that you have too much to say. And I must admit you are very good at saying hurtfull things like they are harmless.
    But I dont have that much time to answer all you saying.

    All I was tring to say is Hrant Dink's murder has nothing to do with genocide claims. As you know Armenians have killed many ambassadors of ours. So of course there are some fachists in Turks as well as in Armenians. It doesnt mean the whole nation is. And it doesnt prove the genocide claims are right.

    "And yes, lots of other people were killed: the Assyrians, Yezidis, Chaldeans, Nestorians, Arabs, Dersim Kurds and Maronites...by the Turks"
    Not by the Turks! By the Ottomans.
    Ever think about why there is no O.E. now? Why it is Turkiye now? Cause in those times everyone was suffering and being killed including us, not only armenians?! You had nothing special believe me. It was only a nations efforts to survive despite the enemies outside and inside both.

    I can understand that you living in the past but you are ruining OUR (Turkish and Armenians livin in Turkey) todays and future. Its OK you do that. But dont call us liars. Believe or not there are a lot of people in Turkey that are really sorry what happened in the past. But we also know that, what happened is happened for a real reason (which seems different to you and us) and this is historians jobs to reveal the truth.
    It is obvious that "Everyday more and more people are learning the truth and they are on our side.". It is because we were always silent. And Armenians never shut up.
    Now things are changing. We finally started to talk. And finally diplomatic relations were accepted (what ever by you or by us I dont care, only the result is important). I am very glad the truth will reveal soon and everyone can look through the future.

    Comment

    • #132
      Originally posted by Joseph View Post
      You completely misunderstand the diplomatic relations issue. How can I make this more clear? Armenia has repeatedly called for diplomatic relations with Turkey...since 1993. Armenia has called for these diplomatic relations without any preconditions which is an international norm. This means that whether Turkey and Armenia agrees on anything or not, it would not matter, they would exchange ambassadors which is how nations conduct diplomacy and from there could try to iron out their issues or not. I will give you some examples of some countries that are enemies that have exchanged ambassadors: India and Pakistan have diplomatic relations, N. Korea and S. Korea, U.S. and Venezuela, and so on. Without diplomatic relations, there is no effective communication between states. You will not find one source, not one, that shows Armenia not accepting unconditional diplomatic relations. The call made by Armenia in the aftermath of the funeral was just the latest effort in that direction.

      Once again, Turkey has added several pre-conditions to be met before diplomatic relations could begin. The historical commission being one of them. This is where your confusion begins.

      As far as your sources go, perhaps you or one of your Turkish compatriots here could be so kind as to translate them. The one source in English you did provide from wikipedia referred to an individual who either interpreted or misinterpreted the words of Sera Dink. I have only seen Rakel Dink's words made public and in the Turkish sources in English such as: Turkish Daily News, Zaman, Sabah, The New Anatolia, Hurriyet, Anatolia Times, I have not seen on reference to anything said by Sera Dink. If indeed she said Turks now have clean blood or something of the like, the agencies would be all over it.

      Additionally, it is only the ultra-nationalists who misinterpreted Hrant Dink's words to begin with during his show trial. Hrant Dink clearly was reffering to Armenians having to cleanse their blood of hatred in their relations with Turks. I think about 99% of people understood what he was trying to say even if they disagree with his views on most things. The ultra-nationalists had already decided he was guilty. Hrant Dink was railroaded. When putting blinders on, they know no rival. Are you one of them?
      You are right I completely misunderstood it. I was just talking about the relations about the genocide claims. Sorry I used wrong english. I didnt mean diplomatic relations.
      Our closed borders and diplomatic relations are a different issue. It has nothing to do with genocide claims. It started on 1993-1994 after Armenians attacs to Nahcivan and taking over the Azerbaican.

      About Serda Dink's words, I dont know who other newspaper havent used it but she really said it. It is not a big deal though. A person who just lost her father can say anything. You cant build your claims on it if you still have some HUMAN in you! Even I can say "if I were her I could say the exact thing" (ofcourse the important thing is intention but there are both extremers in Turks and Armenians and everything is very fragile now everyone should watch theirselves). Maybe that was the reason why no agency were all over these words. Important thing wasnt what a wounded person said. But she told it anyways.

      Am I one of who? Why it is always who you are? Who are you with? do we always classify people? If I must be one of something, then I am one of who hates hate!

      Comment

      • #133
        Originally posted by nkirimli
        Dear Joseph,

        I understand that you have too much to say. And I must admit you are very good at saying hurtfull things like they are harmless.
        But I dont have that much time to answer all you saying.

        All I was tring to say is Hrant Dink's murder has nothing to do with genocide claims. As you know Armenians have killed many ambassadors of ours. So of course there are some fachists in Turks as well as in Armenians. It doesnt mean the whole nation is. And it doesnt prove the genocide claims are right.

        "And yes, lots of other people were killed: the Assyrians, Yezidis, Chaldeans, Nestorians, Arabs, Dersim Kurds and Maronites...by the Turks"
        Not by the Turks! By the Ottomans.
        Ever think about why there is no O.E. now? Why it is Turkiye now? Cause in those times everyone was suffering and being killed including us, not only armenians?! You had nothing special believe me. It was only a nations efforts to survive despite the enemies outside and inside both.

        I can understand that you living in the past but you are ruining OUR (Turkish and Armenians livin in Turkey) todays and future. Its OK you do that. But dont call us liars. Believe or not there are a lot of people in Turkey that are really sorry what happened in the past. But we also know that, what happened is happened for a real reason (which seems different to you and us) and this is historians jobs to reveal the truth.
        It is obvious that "Everyday more and more people are learning the truth and they are on our side.". It is because we were always silent. And Armenians never shut up.
        Now things are changing. We finally started to talk. And finally diplomatic relations were accepted (what ever by you or by us I dont care, only the result is important). I am very glad the truth will reveal soon and everyone can look through the future.
        Dear nkirimli

        I can ASSURE you that not all Armenians are like Joseph. He,obviously is tarring ALL Turks with the same brush. I know from experience ,and from living AMONGST them that is not TRUE! Hrant Dink knew that too,that's why his argument was that THOSE ARMENIANS WHO HAVE POISENED BLOOD RUNNING IN THEIR VEINS SHOULD COME AND LIVE AMONGST THE TURKS. Then their poisoned blood will turn to nectar .They would then realise that THERE ARE A LOT OF TURKS WHO WANT TO SHARE THEIR LIVES WITH THE ARMENIANS.There are a lot of Turks who want to face their past.

        WAS IT NOT OBVIOUS AT DINKS FUNERAL. I suppose some of my fellow Armenians will consider THAT as stage managed. And I suppose someone bribed them all to come to the funeral!

        Dear nkirimli, do not despair. You and me and thousands like us ARE the voice of the majority and the individuals who will be involved in future relations between our two peoples.Fanatic Armenian racists do not even desire to shake the hand of a Turk-unless he has admited the Genocide.

        Comment

        • #134
          Luckily most of Armenians are like Joseph...And I am saying that as an Armenian from Armenia!

          Comment

          • #135
            And I suppose ,YOU would not shake the hand of a Turk either. How sad

            Comment

            • #136
              I find it hard to laugh and cry with people whose ancestors brutally killed mine and they vehemently deny that...
              And I don't know why it is always Diaspora being accused in everything, Diaspora has Armenia's full support on that subject...

              Comment

              • #137
                So obviously you are happy with conditions as they are with Armenia-Turkey border closed. Relying SOLELY on the goodness of another MUSLIM (not even secular Muslim) country IRAN , and clandestine (illegal) trade between Armenian an Turkish individuals near the border . I believe this is short-sighted !

                Comment

                • #138
                  As I understand you want us to write off 1.500 mln of innocent victims for Turkey to condescend to open the borders? Do you want us to give Arcakh back and to apologise for Armenian massacres in Azerbaijan? They might consider to open their borders as well...

                  Comment

                  • #139
                    You are coming up so much for Turkey, I hope your Turkish friends are doing the same for recognition of Armenian Genocide...

                    Comment

                    • #140
                      Yes, most of my Turkish friends are aware of the Armenian massacres and they have no problem with that issue. But they have an open mind about the Genocide issue.My philosophy is and always will be that confrontation seldom achieves the desirable results.

                      As two Armenians,I believe you and me have the same goal ! It just happens that I do not want confrontation and you seem to want confrontation . You are prepared to use the Genocide issue as a precondition for any talks with Turkey. Well, allow me to disagree with you. For me relations with Turkey are crucial NOW , not if and when she recognises the Genocide.

                      I want to see settlement of the Genocide issue now, for the good of ALL Armenians especially for Armenians living in Turkey and Armenia.

                      Comment

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