Comparing Artsakh to Northern Cyprus

[Panos26]

Cyprus issue.A unique complexity

Being Greek allows me to make some valid remarks concerning the complexity of the Cyprus issue that has tortured for decades the political life and existance of Cyprus and of the 2 guarantee powers Greece and Turkey(i am leaving the UK out for the time being).
Someone on the forum said that the establisment of the status quo in Cyprus has helped limit the bloodshed that took place in Cyprus before 74.As much as it hurts me to admit it i will have to agree that even though we have an illegal occupation by Turkish troops in Cyprus,it seems that the bloodshed has stopped in Cyprus after the 74 invasion.That fact alone prooves that cohabiting in Cyprus between Greeks and Turks was impossible.
Also as a young Greek i will have to agree that a number of Greek Cypriot's have commited terrible crimes against Turkish Cypriot people in Cyprus between 63-74.At the time Turkish Cypriot people were outnumbered greatly.They were about 18% of the population and they had to undergo massive opression by the Greek Cypriots.I do not agree with the term massacres that was used by someone.I am just saying that the Greeks have been violent in the past in Cyprus.The english played an important role in the division of the island....if it wasnt for them Greeks and Turks may not even fight over stupid stuff about Cyprus(divide and conquer)
The Anan plan was a good way out but our fellow nationalists Greek Cypriots choose not to adopt it.Referring to Turkish Pride i need to mention that there is no such thing as Northern Cyprus Republic..The only country in the world that recognises a pseudo-country like this is Turkey.The place is still under Turkish occupation and that hurts the feeling of every Greek around the world...I believe that the Cyprus issue is an extremely complex problem and that a peaceful cohabit between Greeks and Turks in Cyprus is extremely difficult to happen as history has shown...
Every Greek-Cypriot is deeply hurt by the coward turkish invasion in the island but that does not mean that the cyprus problem cannot be solved...One of the main objectives of the Greek foreign policy and diplomacy is to help Turkey become fully democratized and join us in the E.U
I am sorry to say that even though Greece and Turkey are so close...they live in a parallel universe.My country has managed to become probably the strongest financial power and economy in the Balkans and South-Eastern Europe,it is completely westernized and competitive where as Turkey continues to refuse it's past...It does not take responsibility for the Armenian Genocide and still continues not to recognize the legal government of Cyprus creating every-time new obstacles for the solution of the Cyprus problem.It continues to endangere it's own accession in the E.U by not complying with the Un resolutions regarding Cyprus and by not allowing free transport of Cypriot plains and boats in the Turkey...
What is the moral???Well....it is down to that...Turkey still remains a non democratic country...a country that refuses to confront it's past and therefore is unable to moove on....My dream is to see in the future a democratic Turkey that will recognize the Armenian Genocide that will work closely with Greece in achieving a viable solution in the Cyprus problem...
This is where Greece comes in the play.Everyone knows that Greece plays the most crutial role in the efforts of Turkey's joining the E.U.It is our role to help our neighbour become a trully european and democratic country,help them join the E.U in the hope of becoming a modern westernized and democratic country like Greece.In all honesty we need a neigbour like that...a neighbour that we can call...friend...that is my biggest dream,my biggest ambitions for Turkey's future...i believe that Greek and Turkish people can do wonders if both of them are in the same democratic path...
As you Turkish people say...insallah...

[Greekaiser]

For the Armenian's who support the Greek Cypriot side in the Cyprus dispute should read about:

1.) The 1963 Christmas Massacres. These were massacres perpetrated by the Greek Cypriots against the Turkish Cypriots.

2.) Read the Akritas plan.

3.) Learn what happened to the Turkish Cypriots before 1974. They didn't expel themselves from the government and civil service and they didn't kick themselves out of their homes to live in tiny isolated enclaves, it was the Greek Cypriots who forced the Turkish Cypriots to do this.

If anyone doesn't even know about these basic facts then they are not fit to write about the Cyprus problem.


Steph you talk about Muslims in a manner as if they are all outsiders and aliens. Do you believe that not a single Muslim in the UK or in Europe has integrated into their hosts culture and society? Do you think we all plot to over throw the government and implement Sharia law?

Would I be wrong in saying that the situation facing Muslims in Europe today is like the situation Jews faced in Europe prior to the Holocaust? You might say that I'm way off the mark but many Europeans said that about the Jews prior to the Holocaust. Not that I am saying a Holocaust of the Muslims will happen but there seems to be a climate of Muslims being demonized in Europe today. Would you not agree?

turkish pride you are very funny.
All g/c know very well what was happening to the t/c and we don't deny the facts of the violence.
The difference between us (greeks), and you (turks) is that we don't try to find all sorts of excuses, as
-they attacked us first
-they killed also
although BOTH are true
before 1974 there were so many g/c ppl killed by the turkish terrorist organization TMT. In fact they were killing t/c also (the leftists). The same is what EOKA did to t/c. The reason that EOKA was more 'successful' in killing innocent people is that the g/c were the 82% of the population.
Also you should know that TMT was founded in 1958, 5 years before violence against t/c started. Its symbol was a grey wolf and the islamic sumbol plus the island of cyprus behind. Its chants were the ''Cyprus is turkish'', ''Ne mutlu turkum diyene''. Of course such chants existed in the other side also.
Most turks believe that TMT was a revolutionary organization that fought for the t/c rights. What an irony.

The problem with turkey is that although g/c know these crimes penetrated by EOKA , they use very cleverly these crimes ,they present them as 'genocide' and they demand independence and repair...

But the main problem with turkey is that NEVER in all her history respected the majority of the ppl of one country or region. always turkey acts in opposite.

Lets see some double standards of turkey regarding the Cyprus issue:

1)Smyrna issue:
-Invasion or intervention:
All the turkish kids learn in the school that greek army just invaded Smyrna to take 'turkish' land.
They never learn that their own government had signed that will give smyrna to greece for 5 years of occupation until its people will decide whether to be given to turkey or greece. This ''invasion'' was recognized as legal by ALL states, even by turkey except the Mustafa Kemal rebel general.
-Violence:
Turks learn that they should have invaded cyprus because the g/c attacked t/c. Of course all the turks believe that greeks had not the same right (to protect the greeks of smyrna who were the MAJORITY of the city) although turks were massacring greeks in all the WW1.

2)Kurds:
-Minority Rights:
turkey is not willing to give ANY cultural or identification right to kurdish ppl but demands all rights for the t/c plus extensive power rights that have never given to none minority, even in the world. Turkey asks for the half-half power in this island. Turkey should think giving the same to kurds.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kurds_in_turkey#Human_rights_of_Kurdish_people_in_Turkey

3)Former minorities in turkey massacred or deported.
Turkey has a long history in that and we all know it.
its very funny to use the violence against t/c to justify independence although turks are reported to kill minorities from the 1071 until today!

Smyrna: The 80% of the population (christians) was massacred and deported
Cilicia: Assyrians were massacred and deported
Kurds: they are culturally massacred every day
Van: 1,5 million armenians...
Pontos: 350000 greeks
Cyprus 1571: 30000 greeks killed
.....
...
if you really support t/c intependence then support all the above also.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Armenian_genocide

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pontic_Greek_Genocide

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Assyrian_genocide

4)Karabakh issue:
Turkey blockades Armenia for the occupation or control of Karabakh although does the same thing in North Cyprus. Greece does not recognize karabakh. Greece helps armenia in economy ,just for humanitarian reasons because right now armenia is poor due to soviet regime and the recent war.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nagorno-Karabakh_Republic

5)Hatay:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Republic_of_Hatay

Hatay belonged to Syria and had 40% turks. Turkey with cooperation with France brought thousands of settlers in only some months resulting in changing the demographics to 70% turks. After turks of hatay declared independence, put a turkish flag, brought the turkish constitution ,brought the turkish currency and then with a referedum in which the settlers voted, they annexed the syrian province although that syria didn't agree.
Its very funny to ask from us to read the akritas plan.
Why turkey has the right to annex territories and others don't?

-Would you want or not ,if the population of cyprus was 82% turkish ,the annexation of the island?
-What means would you use to make it turkish?
-Would you agree in giving even the basic rights to greek minority? or you would deport them as you did in ALL other cases?
-What power rights a minority of 18% must have? Why not the kurds? hmmmm
-Can you invade to protect 120000 t/c and deport 180000g/c for that? hmmm
-Can you occupy a region that was inhabited by 25% t/c? hmm
-Can you bring settlers? (160000)hmmm
-Why you don't accept other movements of independence?


The problem with turkey is that never want to accept the will of the ppl!
just that!