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Hello All
I've been reading posts on the "Introductions" thread that relate to the question of religion. It is an important question. I thought to devote a thread to it rather than respond on the Introductions thread and throw it off track.
As you know Armenia is ancient so it is not surprising that some Armenians "feel" the connection with something that is at the essential beginning. In one way or another it is our connection with higher consciousness however you wish to perceive it or call it. It is this feeling we can have at times suggested above by Shahen Khachatrian, curator of the Art Museum in Yeravan.
But as 1.5 Milion suggests, perhaps it is often misunderstood and even worse, intentionally perverted for political gain. From a Christian perspective then it is not so easy to know how to Give to Caesar what is Caesar's and to God, what is God's. If this were balanced our feeling a part of something higher than ourselves would allow us to share it within a healthy society building on mutual respect. But as we know it is not the case. There is no balance. IMO We don't really know what it means.
The Armenian genocide like all such killings is an objective abomination. They don't make any objective sense. They verify the truth of Plato's Cave analogy. People are interacting in the world as in a cave, in the dark, oblivious of a higher reality, but instead fixated on shadows. These shadows are imagination leading to subjective values and can lead to unnatural acts such as the Armenian Genocide.
We can say that the answer is to get rid of religion but for me this is like throwing the baby out with the bath water. Esoteric or inner Christianity is in the soul of the Armenian. It furthers our inner life. Of course when it is abused sometimes in its exoteric or secular expressions, it can create unnecessary difficulties. But the bottom line for me is that it is the way to recognize that we are in Plato's cave and the value of turning to the light so as to put cave life into perspective
If it wasn't for my religious perceptions, I could not know how to psychologically deal with the Armenian Genocide. What does it mean to forgive? How does one understand it from a higher spiritual perspective and what it means that man is a fallen creature having lost that perspective..
As Shahen is suggesting, our lives are really brief when taken from a higher perspective. It is my religion that allows me to feel this perspective. It surely is not a subjective secular value.
So perhaps here we can discuss the value of religion for ourselves and our culture. Perhaps a Turk and an Armenian have certain common ground?
It seems natural that if the Armenian Genocide is an objective abomination in the context of respect for life itself, that we should be more aware of it as a whole. But mankind appears oblivious and doomed to repeat cycles as described in Ecclesiastes 3 Is this the fault of religion or the absence of qualitative understanding of religion natural for its devolution over time normal for the motive of political gain.
Can it be that understanding the objective "essence" of religion can vary between people.
In chess for example, all players know the rules of the game. but how they "understand" the game is verified by their wins and losses. I was last rated years ago as 1942 in USCF. This means that that I could beat the average duffer but would not belong in the same room with Kasparov. We both "know" the rules but he "understands" the rules.
It is the same with religion IMO but of course we cannot verify as we can in chess so people just argue.
I know that some may disagree but I believe that the "heart" of the Armenian needs and feeds on religious concepts even unconsciously. The more its great depth is taken from them in favor of blind secularization, the more they will suffer on the inside. The result may be a feeling of being more modern but at what expense; a nagging inner emptiness in the more sensitive?
The genuine need as I see it is described quite well by Jacob Needleman in the preface to his book: "Lost Christianity where he writes:
As Armenians we know well the results of criminal weakness. I don't believe the answer is in abandoning religion but rather in rediscovering what was lost before it became a tool of politics as opposed to its natural food for the heart.
It is a difficult question and I welcome your input.
"Maybe the most alluring image of love which Nature bears is the borderline between water and dry land, where water circumscribes the earth, and the earth circumscribes the line of water. The horizon, taking off from the shore and stretching far into the distance, connects Man with the awesome endlessness of the universe, and here, right here, one acutely feels the miracle of his fleeting life" Shahen Khachatrian
As you know Armenia is ancient so it is not surprising that some Armenians "feel" the connection with something that is at the essential beginning. In one way or another it is our connection with higher consciousness however you wish to perceive it or call it. It is this feeling we can have at times suggested above by Shahen Khachatrian, curator of the Art Museum in Yeravan.
But as 1.5 Milion suggests, perhaps it is often misunderstood and even worse, intentionally perverted for political gain. From a Christian perspective then it is not so easy to know how to Give to Caesar what is Caesar's and to God, what is God's. If this were balanced our feeling a part of something higher than ourselves would allow us to share it within a healthy society building on mutual respect. But as we know it is not the case. There is no balance. IMO We don't really know what it means.
The Armenian genocide like all such killings is an objective abomination. They don't make any objective sense. They verify the truth of Plato's Cave analogy. People are interacting in the world as in a cave, in the dark, oblivious of a higher reality, but instead fixated on shadows. These shadows are imagination leading to subjective values and can lead to unnatural acts such as the Armenian Genocide.
We can say that the answer is to get rid of religion but for me this is like throwing the baby out with the bath water. Esoteric or inner Christianity is in the soul of the Armenian. It furthers our inner life. Of course when it is abused sometimes in its exoteric or secular expressions, it can create unnecessary difficulties. But the bottom line for me is that it is the way to recognize that we are in Plato's cave and the value of turning to the light so as to put cave life into perspective
If it wasn't for my religious perceptions, I could not know how to psychologically deal with the Armenian Genocide. What does it mean to forgive? How does one understand it from a higher spiritual perspective and what it means that man is a fallen creature having lost that perspective..
As Shahen is suggesting, our lives are really brief when taken from a higher perspective. It is my religion that allows me to feel this perspective. It surely is not a subjective secular value.
So perhaps here we can discuss the value of religion for ourselves and our culture. Perhaps a Turk and an Armenian have certain common ground?
It seems natural that if the Armenian Genocide is an objective abomination in the context of respect for life itself, that we should be more aware of it as a whole. But mankind appears oblivious and doomed to repeat cycles as described in Ecclesiastes 3 Is this the fault of religion or the absence of qualitative understanding of religion natural for its devolution over time normal for the motive of political gain.
Can it be that understanding the objective "essence" of religion can vary between people.
In chess for example, all players know the rules of the game. but how they "understand" the game is verified by their wins and losses. I was last rated years ago as 1942 in USCF. This means that that I could beat the average duffer but would not belong in the same room with Kasparov. We both "know" the rules but he "understands" the rules.
It is the same with religion IMO but of course we cannot verify as we can in chess so people just argue.
I know that some may disagree but I believe that the "heart" of the Armenian needs and feeds on religious concepts even unconsciously. The more its great depth is taken from them in favor of blind secularization, the more they will suffer on the inside. The result may be a feeling of being more modern but at what expense; a nagging inner emptiness in the more sensitive?
The genuine need as I see it is described quite well by Jacob Needleman in the preface to his book: "Lost Christianity where he writes:
"What is needed is either a new understanding of God or a new understanding of Man: an understanding of God that does not insult the scientific mind while offering bread, not a stone, to the deepest hunger of the heart; an understanding of Man that squarely faces the criminal weakness of our moral will while holding out to us the knowledge of how we can strive within ourselves to become the fully human being we were meant to be -- both for ourselves and as instruments of a higher purpose."
"The relative value of the various religions is a very difficult thing to discern. It is almost impossible, perhaps quite impossible. For a religion is only known from inside. Religion is a form of nourishment. It is difficult to appreciate the flavour and food-value of something one has never eaten." Simone Weil
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