why blame me?

[Nick_A]

Murat, of course I agree that it is not right to lump all Turkish people as killers of the Armenians. If it were, I could not be friendly with Turkish people. That being said, on a site that is dealing with the Armenian Genocide, it is not out of place to ask you if you are willing to admit that it happened. Are you willing to admit that it was a genocide and as such, an abomination?

Granted Hrant Dink was in favor of bettering relations but that is not to deny his insistence that the Armenian Genocide must be recognized as such. How can we think of bettering and maintaining relations on a large scale without honoring the intrinsic value of people and in this case doing so by admitting the reality of the Armenian Genocide?

Last year a major exhibition of Russian Art came to the Guggenheim Museum in NY. One of its featured works was the "Ninth Wave" by Aivazovsky.

I saw the exhibition several times. Once when I was there and it had quieted down, I was contemplating the Ninth Wave and was joined by two Sufi men. One thing led to another and we began to talk about it. The conversation became very esoteric. After we parted, I felt it ironic that with all the religious tension going on, I'm discussing ideas that have nothing to do with 911. It wouldn't be necessary to ask their opinion of the Armenian Genocide since, like me, they would find it an abomination and an example of what mankind can be capable of. As human beings we spoke of the "light" and what it meant in the painting.

But these situations are for individuals. For the sake of everyone, sometimes it is necessary to just hear or read how another thinks. So, as far as you know and are willing to know, is the Armenian Genocide a reality?

[bell-the-cat]

prove it then i believe. Thats because i really dont know much though. The thing is true or not why should i face this entire my life?

Why should i be blamed for this even if it has actually happened? If it didnt happen in the first place this isnt fair.... If it has been done accusing me and my fellows in that case isnt fair..

That is my point..

I dont kill anyone, i have armenian friends as i have turkish.. And neither of you can foster me to break up against anything. for example Nick_A, i would think twice on what you say because you tell it in a right way without prejudice..however for the guyz like SoSarkissian i just smile instead..

regards

Murat

There are repercussions after committing genocide.
Surely you don't think that an entire population can be killed or expelled and its effect doesn't echo down several generations of the descendants of both the perpetrators and the victims? What you have experienced are simply some of those repercussions.
As for complaining about them, better you try to minimise the reasons for them.

[Nick_A]

Well said Bell. As human beings we have the obligation to make things better. Part of this is in admitting the truth of the Armenian Genocide.

[asia]

prove it then i believe. Thats because i really dont know much though. The thing is true or not why should i face this entire my life?

Why should i be blamed for this even if it has actually happened? If it didnt happen in the first place this isnt fair.... If it has been done accusing me and my fellows in that case isnt fair..

That is my point..

I dont kill anyone, i have armenian friends as i have turkish.. And neither of you can foster me to break up against anything. for example Nick_A, i would think twice on what you say because you tell it in a right way without prejudice..however for the guyz like SoSarkissian i just smile instead..

regards

Murat

hi murat,
i'm turkish also and i think that you chose a way for yourself and it's -sad- to get away from your reality. i mean you have to take care of your country and the history of this country.this is your own responsability.
when we -turkish people- talk about the conquete of Istanbul or about some stuff heroic of the Ottomans, we really talk about them generously;but when it's time to talk about our faults, we are so mean.and we choose the simple way:run away.''we don't care,yeah may be somebody killed somebody but i don't care...'' would you care when a turkish team wins the world cup? of course you do;me too.so we have to accept our past as well.it's our past.

and i can say for these armenian people that in turkey almost everyone accepts that nearly 1 million of armenians dead ''because of'' turkish people.but not ''by'' turkish people.me,i'm one of them. i hope i'm clear.but the question is:can we call it as a ''genocide''?to see better,i think we all have to learn what does it mean a ''genocide''.

and i don't want to be someone who says ''but you did bla bla bla also..''(like a child may be).but i guess you listen and read something from the part armenian.we have to think objectively to see what happened really.i did so,and now i can accept that we are the cause oh the deaths of ~1 millions of people.ant i think you have to do so (as realist people do).

#sorry for my english.it's been a long time that i have not written stg english. i hope u can understand.

[Steph]

Asia,
Congratulations on your English!
What an effort........and I think that I understand what you're saying......that the Armenian Genocide is a FACT and cannot be denied.
Also, that you need, as a nation, to accept this, admit this and work towards reconciling actions of the last 90 odd years and work for reconciliation with the survivors.

[1.5 million]

asia - I think your statment provides an excellent starting place. I encourage you to both share with us here your understandings and don't hesitte to ask any questions for clarification. I can see you accept the Armenian deaths - and accept that the cause of these deaths was through Turkish (Ottoman) action (and while this sounds basic it really is a step that not all Turks seem willing to take/accept) - however I sense in you doubt about the designation of genocide (meaning either you are having trouble understanding the meaning of the term - or perhaps you have questions regarding the intent/willfulness of the acts leading to such - or both) - either way I still applaud your step, congratulate you on sucessful English communications and encourage you to participate here further.

[asia]

i think you got what i mean but there's a point that we can not hear eachother.basicly i ask a question to me and to you and to everyone that i know:yes they r dead because of us but was it a "genocide"?i mean: to call something as genocide there must be an intention like "we are going to kill all these armenian people who lives in the borders of this country".i really made so many researchs about this point and i couldn't find any documents that proves this.so i don't want to call these actions as "genocide".but one day if someone finds documents about it,it doesn't matter for me to accept it like "genocide".and i think it will be so for my people.



it's really nice to be here bacause i needed to talk with someone about this subject.

[Nick_A]

Hi Asia

Page two oif this following article stresses the intention to destroy the Armenian race: genocide

http://www.hyeetch.nareg.com.au/geno...nocide_p1.html

Henry Morgenthau, the American Ambassador to the Ottoman Empire at the time, tried to reason with the Young Turk leaders and to alert the United States and world to the tragic events, but, except for some donations for relief efforts, his actions were in vain. His description of the genocide begins:
The Central Government now announced its intention of gathering the two million or more Armenians living in the several sections of the Empire and transporting them to this desolate and inhospitable region. Had they undertaken such a deportation in good faith, it would have represented the height of cruelty and inj ustice. As a matter of fact, the Turks never had the slightest idea of re-establishing the Annenians in this new country . . . The real purpose of the deportation was robbery and destruction; it really represented a new method of massacre. When the Turkish authorities gave the orders for these deportations, they were merely giving the death warrant to the whole race; they understood this well, and, in their conversations with me, they made no particular attempt to conceal the fact.

What do you question in the context of the whole article? Do you doubt that the answer to the Armenian question for the Young Turks was the destruction of the Armenian race? I don't know what you are doubting?

[Joseph]

i think you got what i mean but there's a point that we can not hear eachother.basicly i ask a question to me and to you and to everyone that i know:yes they r dead because of us but was it a "genocide"?i mean: to call something as genocide there must be an intention like "we are going to kill all these armenian people who lives in the borders of this country".i really made so many researchs about this point and i couldn't find any documents that proves this.so i don't want to call these actions as "genocide".but one day if someone finds documents about it,it doesn't matter for me to accept it like "genocide".and i think it will be so for my people.



it's really nice to be here bacause i needed to talk with someone about this subject.

Just as I suspected.

Indeed, I suppose the only Genocide that exists would be the Holocaust due to the Germanic trait of being thoroughly detailed oriented, traits which the Turks seemed to lack.

That being said, we need to now cancel out the Bosnian, Cambodian, Rwandan, Darfur, Christian Sudanese, genocides as well. They have yet to find a document that implicates any leaders so I guess none of those events have ever officially occured.


Here is a little know fact about the Holocaust during WWII:

THERE IS NOT ONE SINGLE DOCUMENT THAT CAN DIRECTLY LINK OR DEMONSTATE THAT ADOLF HITLER ORDERED THE DESTRUCTION OF JEW, SLAVS, AND OTHER NON-ARYANS.

Yet, you would have to be virulent anti-semite or complete lunatic to believe he did not give orders in this regards or approve such actions from his cohorts.

Indeed Talaat and Enver were very upfront with Ambassador Morgenthau, Amb. Waggenheim and others about their intentions for the Armenians, Assyrians, Chaldeans, etc.

[SoSarkissian]

to call something as genocide there must be an intention like "we are going to kill all these armenian people who lives in the borders of this country".i really made so many researchs about this point and i couldn't find any documents that proves this.