Christians targeted for death in Turkey

[elendil]

Let me suggest something for you (moderate?/aware?) Turks and specifically for your government - recognize the Armenian Genocide and the crimes commited against the Armenian people - fully and thoroughly - without excuses or reservations - say publically "never again!" and act in a fashion to back up what you say - this - I believe - will substansially take the wind out of the extremists sails - unlike the current environment - where Turks like you and your government keep blowing hard into them.

I dont think I will take the suggestion though thanks for the offer.

But let's say such a thing happened. Such an act from the goverment would probably cause a civil war. Simple and plain civil war. Nationalist side (which I am in) would argue that this state can not protect the interests of Turkish nation anymore and therefore is not legitimate. Shhhhh, I can not even imagine the atmposhere.
Blood would spill indeed.

Wise move would be to disband the these fasict extensions of nationalist side and arrest the ring within respect to our law.

[Kharpert]

I don't think it will be good enough or even possible to throw all the extremists in jail. I don't see how that would in any way promote a good social change to prevent killings in the future.

This problem has deeper roots than just a few troublemakers. What do you think inspires these extremists? Do you honestly believe society has nothing to do with it?

[elendil]

I don't think it will be good enough or even possible to throw all the extremists in jail. I don't see how that would in any way promote a good social change to prevent killings in the future.

This problem has deeper roots than just a few troublemakers. What do you think inspires these extremists? Do you honestly believe society has nothing to do with it?

These boys are not natural born killers. It would be very stupid to assume so. Society has everything to do with it ofcourse. Militaristic background of our nation, when combined with poverty, lack of education and ultra nationalism, yield such a result. The legacies of the Turkish nation are based on battle, war tactic, traveling and capturing lands. When these kids face the facts of civilian life which they can not adept, they choose an identity that anyone can fit in. You see this identity requires no work, no thinking, no effort, no intelligence. "What do you do for a living?" "I kill or die for my country" is the answer. When serving in military this motto is fine but not in civilian life. Therefore the problem is deeper when one analyzes.

However, they are trained as far as killing civilian if not as a soldier. Shooting a man in the head is not an easy thing to do therefore it would be pretty logical to assume that these boys were inspired and supported by certain groups. These certain groups must simply be stopped.

Then ofcourse, there is the legacy of Armenians being eternal enemies and traitors. Kurdish citizens, despite the PKK conflict, are accepted as equals in Turkish nation since they are muslims and more of it there is no reference to them in the books of history at the education system. But Armenians are defined as enemies directly and this justifies the entire process in the mind of the killer. While history may hold enmity, defining entire Armenian nation as enemy is extremly wrong and the results it causes are dire. The eduction must change.

Sure, if we leave humanity to a side, there is not much we will lose. Technically speaking, Turkey can easily move on on the bones of Hrant Dink and three Christians. In a year, majority of Turkish population will forget these events. In fact expect a few circles the world will forget these events. Well, why the trouble or the bother then?

Because we do not need a youth that desires killing of others to prove its existence. Turkey will never find inner peace if the vision of the future generations is war. Oh yes we will improve and grow strong regardless, we have the potential. But the lives of every Turkish citizen must be protected regardless of its ethnic roots so that there may be peace for us.

[1.5 million]

As long as the Turkish government, media and academia (and people like you) continue to perpetuate the idea of Armenians as the enemy and continue to legitimize your attacks against us (of which denial of the Armenian Genocide is the first and foremost attack) then nothing will change. You are all the problem. And don't try to attempt to claim that if Armenians stopped calling for Genocide recognition then everything would be OK. First - we can never accept that this crime against us goes unrecognized. Second - we are in the right - and Turks are in the wrong. Third - it wouldn't make any difference anyway - the problem is with you (Turks) - and Armenian Genocide is just a (major) part of it - but not all of it. You need to fix yoursleves first...

[1.5 million]

Elendil - I like you (and I like Turks) - I want to see your country do better - and for Turks to prosper and grow free of the shakles your history and your governments have made for you - with Ataturk (and his policies/solutions) - as much as I greatly admire him - being a major part of the problem. Basing so much of what it means to be Turkish - to be a Turk - on myth - and on destructive and highly amnesiac myth at that - will never result on Turks growing beyond this. And to always have Armenians as "the enemy" - do you really think that this is a good thing? (for the mid-long term I would be afraid...we will have peace and justice - or we will have our revenge - and such a revenge that you cannot begin to contemplate...think about this for a bit. Armenians are not an untalented or incapable people...and we are certainly driven...our respect for our families requires no less...)

[elendil]

As long as the Turkish government, media and academia (and people like you) continue to perpetuate the idea of Armenians as the enemy and continue to legitimize your attacks against us (of which denial of the Armenian Genocide is the first and foremost attack) then nothing will change. You are all the problem. And don't try to attempt to claim that if Armenians stopped calling for Genocide recognition then everything would be OK

I wont claim such a thing. In fact nothing will change even if you stop recognition demands...
Who cares for genocide recognition claims or initiatives in Turkish state? See beyond that 1.5 million. Turkish state cares for Azerbaijan and future oil pipeline projects, Turkish state cares for the probability of an alliance with Turkic republics. It is a state and naturally it looks forward to its interests. It defends blindly, it simply could not care less if it was Armenia and Syria.

As to people being a part of the problem, well ofcourse. The majority of Turkey is chanting "there is no genocide", the rest is chanting" it was war, we are very sorry" where Armenians chant "recognize the genocide".

First - we can never accept that this crime against us goes unrecognized

Determination. All right, so you can not.

Second - we are in the right - and Turks are in the wrong

That is what you believe. But from your point of view all right.

Third - it wouldn't make any difference anyway - the problem is with you (Turks) - and Armenian Genocide is just a (major) part of it - but not all of it. You need to fix yoursleves first...

Problem with us is so wide Armenian issue is just a bubble in the river. I do not say this to belittle your legacy or pain, but honestly, Turkey has far more pressing issues. These issues are not the reflection of a killing,war, genocide or whatever people like to call it that happened a century ago , they are issues like economy, education, breacrucy, extereme nationalism, extreme leftism, all induce enmity, violence. The killing of Hrant Dink an these three Christians are the result of education system and poverty. These children do not carry a collective memory of killing Armenians.

Elendil - I like you (and I like Turks) - I want to see your country do better - and for Turks to prosper and grow free of the shakles your history and your governments have made for you - with Ataturk (and his policies/solutions) - as much as I greatly admire him - being a major part of the problem

Simply I do not agree with you, but we can discuss Atatürk's reform on another thread if you wish. Too great for a conversation of this magnitude.

And to always have Armenians as "the enemy" - do you really think that this is a good thing?

I have criticized it a post ago, I condemn it and I believe the definition of Armenian (or any other ethnicity) being an enemy must change. I did not and do not think it is a good thing.

(for the mid-long term I would be afraid...we will have peace and justice - or we will have our revenge - and such a revenge that you cannot begin to contemplate...think about this for a bit. Armenians are not an untalented or incapable people...and we are certainly driven...our respect for our families requires no less...)

You speak your rage from your heart. Therefore I will not answer this in the same manner. I know Armenians are not untalented or incapable. And yes you are driven. And also yes you have your respect for your family. What it requires is a thing for you to know.
All I will say what we will do what is required of us if such a time comes.

[Joseph]

I dont think I will take the suggestion though thanks for the offer.

But let's say such a thing happened. Such an act from the goverment would probably cause a civil war. Simple and plain civil war. Nationalist side (which I am in) would argue that this state can not protect the interests of Turkish nation anymore and therefore is not legitimate. Shhhhh, I can not even imagine the atmposhere.
Blood would spill indeed.

Wise move would be to disband the these fasict extensions of nationalist side and arrest the ring within respect to our law.

Judging from what I see from the Turkish media, the Turkish judiciary has concluded that the killer and his cohorts are not part of a larger conspiracy. It looks as though the case will eventually fade away and the murderer will serve a short sentence. The military, MHP, ulusalci, etc must be very proud of their sons.

[Jade]

Watched it on TV. Thought that there were more than 300,000 though.

BTW, and pardon my ignorance of Turkish history, what is significant about the 14th April?

That's what I read in CNN when it first came out...They said something along the lines of "more than 300,000" but it must have been very close to a million if not more...To be honest I have no idea about the 14th of April...I just searched a bit on the internet but didn't come up with anything spectacular...Sorry that I took such a long to reply to these...I was off to Turkey where there are no proper internet connections where I stay

As for the killings I would assume that they were done by the people who are more religious rather than the nationalists as I would think that only they would care enough about religion to grow hatred for someone else's religious choices...As for the nationalists, I don't think that they would pay much emphasis to religion but perhaps I'm wrong...
Ps: The last time I posted on this thread I was feeling terribly depressed...One of those gray days... I really appreciate what you wrote as a reply Joseph

[Jade]

From what I can see through watching the TV etc, Turkey is very much on the brink of an enormous change. As a person who knows a little bit about the mentality of the Turkish people yet attempts to look at it from the outside, I would say that the nationalists are indeed feeling more nationalistic than ever. Which means that they probably are not ready to accept or recognize any past acts (namely the Genocide) they have committed. The fear is too great. Once everything settles down, (hopefully in the way we want it to be) and once the tension and the fear is diminished, then it could be possible...I think that the majority of the nationalists right now are too protective of their country to even come close to admitting any past thing that might mar the Turkish nation. Because most people will probably realize that once the Armenian issue is brought forward, that will divide the people even further. And the Turkish nationalists are in no position to afford that.
This is just a thought, so perhaps someone who follows this issue more closely than I, can enlighten me

[Jade]

I just found the significance of 14th April, it is the day I believe when the first massive demonstration against Erdogan was held in Ankara...For those of you interested