Interesting Kurdish perspective

[Gavur]

Good points
Look at Darfur ,I just read today that the State Department considers Sudan an important ally in fight against Terorrism,State Department claims that Terrorism and Genocide 2 separate issues?
Besides the current goverment of Sudan is supposedly different then the one induced err... I meant encouraged opps.. may have been aided by.. us??
.. ohh noo I didn't just say that did I?
When will it end ?When will we stop supporting bad guys in entice,encourage or provoke them into commiting evil then politically blackmailing them into submission while the crime goes unpunished only condemned for apparences.
Who bears the greater sin the trigger man of this world or the ones who use them for their own profit!
Who is guiltyer then us?
If it walks like a duck...
you know it ain't no geese.

[kerkuk_kurdista]

Maybe America realises that a single, partially reliable, Turkish dog is worth a hundred self-seeking, fawning Kurdish ones. Kurdish dogs may bark a lot for show, but they are all toothless, cowardly curs who are mostly just interested in licking their own and each others genitals.

A dog is more noble than a pig

Turks' attempts lately to make themselves look western and pro-USA has shown that their hold on Kurds is primarly because of the USA. Since Turkey's and US's alliance has never been much worthier than the Kurds could give them, who knows already has given them.

Therefore we see typical Turks like this member starting to name-call and making racist generalisations, showing his loss of moral and knowledge of the rise of a Kurdish state.

[Steph]

KK,
what is the general opinion regarding a free Kurdistan and an Armenia restored to it's ancient borders?
I've received emails from UK based Kurds who certainly show no sympathy towards Armenians, either regarding Genocide Recognition and/or restoration of borders.
Is this an area where two nations with shared problems and goals could work together but may not because of land disputes?

[Joseph]

KK,
what is the general opinion regarding a free Kurdistan and an Armenia restored to it's ancient borders?
I've received emails from UK based Kurds who certainly show no sympathy towards Armenians, either regarding Genocide Recognition and/or restoration of borders.
Is this an area where two nations with shared problems and goals could work together but may not because of land disputes?

I can't answer for Kerkuk but I believe there are some Kurds that are sympathetic to Armenians but by and large, most are not.

a. Armenians are still considered subhuman because they are Christian
b. Kurds have always coveted Armenian lands
c. Kurds willingly took part in the Genocide
d. Kurds have always resented Armenians for numerous other reasons (Armenians were townspeople, merchants, business onwers, farmers, etc.., all the things Kurds historically disrespect and resent)

[Steph]

I can't answer for Kerkuk but I believe there are some Kurds that are sympathetic to Armenians but by and large, most are not.

a. Armenians are still considered subhuman because they are Christian
b. Kurds have always coveted Armenian lands
c. Kurds willingly took part in the Genocide
d. Kurds have always resented Armenians for numerous other reasons (Armenians were townspeople, merchants, business onwers, farmers, etc.., all the things Kurds historically disrespect and resent)

Sad but true.

[Joseph]

Sad but true.

I am sympathetic to Kurdish aims in N. Iraq (and the enemy of my enemy is my friend) and in Asia Minor but the Kurds do hate us much as the Turks. If both Turks and Kurds finally have an all-out fight in the region I can only look on with the belief that they will reap what they have sown. If somehow the Kurds carve out a state someday in what is now considered eastern Turkey, I would seriously doubt they would give Armenians Ani, Van, etc.

I realize the source is Wikipedia but it is valuable nonetheless:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kurdish-Armenian_relations

[kerkuk_kurdista]

I can't answer for Kerkuk but I believe there are some Kurds that are sympathetic to Armenians but by and large, most are not.

a. Armenians are still considered subhuman because they are Christian
b. Kurds have always coveted Armenian lands
c. Kurds willingly took part in the Genocide
d. Kurds have always resented Armenians for numerous other reasons (Armenians were townspeople, merchants, business onwers, farmers, etc.., all the things Kurds historically disrespect and resent)

A. Untrue, most of (Iraqi) Kurds do respect other religions.
Just a shiny example: http://www.iraqupdates.com/p_articles.php/article/16660

Where you see this sentence:

There are no accurate statistics about the Christian population in Kurdistan, but some estimates indicate that there are over 250,000 to 400,000.

B. I'm sure most Kurds see reconciliation as the first option instead of a new conflict.

C. Sadly thats true. Although, it was a part of the Kurds, we condemn it.

D. I don't know if your intention was to generalize, the things you mention (and also the other points) are related to the past. We support Armenians against Turkey too.

[Joseph]

Interesting Editorial- A voice of reason?

http://www.turkishdailynews.com.tr/article.php?enewsid=74667

At The Brink of a Chaos: Kurds, EU, Army and Poor Intellectuals of this Country

Friday, June 1, 2007



Orhan Kemal Cengiz

Are we cursed? Why do we always have to live in conflict, in tension, in fear, and in terror? What is wrong in this country? What is wrong with us? Why we cannot solve any problems of this country? Why do we always repeat everything we have lived through before? Why do we, on the one hand, boast that we have such a strong army and why, on the other hand, we are so afraid of “our enemies”? Why is everything defined in this country as a security matter? Why is the army being glorified while civilians and politicians are underestimated and humiliated?

There is an election in two months and we are not sure if there will be any election at all! Nothing is sure, anything can happen!

Now, we have “suicide bombers” once again. It is evidently clear that some elements in the Kurdistan Workers' Party (PKK) are desperately trying to drag Turkey into Northern Iraq to accelerate the already existing alienation of Turkey's Kurds from Turkey; to get Turkey to confront Iraqi Kurds; to weaken Turkey's ties with the Western world and worst of all to trigger a bloody slaughter between civilian Kurds and Turks in Turkey.

Why is there always almost a complete match of the agendas of the hawks on both sides? We were talking about joining the European Union the other day and now we are talking about military interventions! We, defenders of human rights, democrats, intellectuals and civil activists of this country, have been working every single day for the last ten to twenty years to get this country to take some steps to improve human rights, to get real democracy and more freedoms. And what we come up with is just the bitter reality that all we did means nothing! What a blow to our self-esteem! Over these years, we have sacrificed many things believing that we are doing something and that we are contributing to the well being of our countries. We have come to the point from which we started.

Europe has part in Turkey's chaos

I am personally angry with the EU and the European countries. The EU and the European countries have played a big part in the current unfolding chaos here in Turkey by not putting a clear route before Turkey, not making a clear promise to Turkey in case she fulfills her obligations whereby she can definitely join the club and by discussing everyday whether Turkey is European or not. That is really shameful for the EU, too. A democratic and secular Turkey, which lives in peace with its Islamist and Kurdish factions could make a notable contribution to the dream of a democratic and a cosmopolitan European Union.

We have always had external and internal enemies who are determined to break up our country. These are our neighbors. These are Communists, Kurds and Islamists. I am 39-years-old and have been listening to these fears and paranoid whisperings since I first became self-aware. For the last 30 years, we have been struggling with terror. For the last 30 years, we have been listening to our generals (including retired ones) with their “strategic plans” on how to finish terror. Why cannot we say to them: “Look, sir, okay, the PKK is a terrorist organization which has a totalitarian ideology. But this organization has become bigger and bigger over the years. When the PKK started its bloody campaign, it had a handful of sympathizers. Today the story is completely different.

If you only have a hammer, everything looks like a nail

Have you ever considered, sir, that your operations in South East Turkey, some of which caused shameful human rights violations for Turkey before the European Court of Human Rights; your understanding of the matter, which is based on the complete denial of the Kurdish identity and your approach, which completely block political arenas for Kurds, may somehow be contributing to the success of the PKK? Would there be any truth in this, sir?

I have never heard, sir, that any of your officials have either made any self-criticism or else put anyone on trial for their wrongful acts in the struggle against terror during these 30 years? Okay, sir, we have Islamists now, we may have more public appearances of Muslim people in comparison with the situation, let's say, in the 1970s and 1980s. But was it not your generals who were reading verses from the Koran and opening Imam Hatips (religious schools) everywhere in Turkey just after the 1980 coup d'etat believing that Turkey was under the threat of communism, so that an “Islamic green belt” must contain the “Turkish Communists”! This social engineering does not work, sir!

There is a saying, sir, if the only tool you have is a hammer, everything appears to you as a nail! For you, sir, there are enemies and allies, but we cannot rule this country with this! You are our dear soldiers, sir. Please, do your own job only and let politics somehow mature in this country, let this country benefit from politics, sir! We are begging you, sir!”

[email protected]

[Joseph]

http://www.kurdishaspect.com/doc062107PS.html

The Turkish Invasion of Free Kurdistan



Kurdishaspect.com - By Peter Stitt



After reading Ercan Uzan's account of the dreadful scenarios discussed at the Hudson Institute meetings recently, it has become clear (yet again) that Kurds cannot count on American or European honesty. That means there must be a "Plan B" and I hope Jalal and Masoud have already thought about this situation. If Turkey invades South Kurdistan, what should be the response?



Whilst I would have loved PKK to have put down their weapons and gone home, it was never going to happen. PKK is being used as a pretext for a Turkish invasion and destruction of the KRG but, in reality, this would have happened anyway, no matter what PKK did. So what should be the response?



If South Kurdistan is attacked, there is no PKK, there is no PUK, there is no PDK, there is just Kurdish. As soon as those tanks cross over the border there is one Kurdish nation because those tank treads will obliterate every political difference between Kurdish parties. Turkey, through its aggression, will unite the greater Kurdistan.



Conventional wisdom runs that a Turkish invasion of South Kurdistan would be a disaster for the Kurdish people but it may be the catalyst for the true unification of the Kurdish people against a common enemy, above and beyond relatively minor internal Kurdish political and tribal rivalries.



No birth is without pain, ask any Kurdish Mother! What God wills will come to pass and sometimes it is difficult, as mere humans, to see the bigger picture but the suffering of Kurdistan in the next few months may actually result in the foundation of a united Kurdish nation and the decline and fall of an aggressive and racist neighbour.



If the second largest military force in NATO is routed in the mountains, Diyarbakir becomes Amer again. I am no military tactician but I am aware of the brilliance of Kurdish peshmerga in combat in certain environments. As an American General said of the Kurdish forces following the overthrow of Saddam: "I'm glad they are on our side." I do hope you are listening Turkey.



This confrontation now seems inevitable and I am not anti-Turkish but the Turkish military is going too damned far in its anti-Kurdish activity. When the first Turkish tank rolls across the border I will be borrowing the money to fly to Howler to be with a people I love and respect, to be with them and suffer what they suffer. I'm no soldier, no military strategist, no politician, but I haven't come this far with the

Kurdish people to sit comfortably in England whilst Kurds are being attacked on their internationally recognised own land. Aside from this, I can write my account of events as a journalist and then fight for Kurdistan when required to do so.



If attacked there is ONE Kurdish people. I strongly advise Turkey to avoid its own Vietnam because that is what will come to pass. You think the end of World War One was bad Turkey with the Ottoman Empire destroyed? This one is unwinable and will, undoubtedly reduce Turkey further. Actually, go for it, invade. I think the Armenians might be interested in the outcome of this conflict.



So Turkish military High Command, you will use PKK as an excuse to try to destroy any autonomy for Kurds in South Kurdistan? Too many Kurds, too many mountains, too many people support the Kurds from outside of Kurdistan. Do you really want to make Turkey look silly? My God, you guys are dinosaurs....

[Joseph]

http://www.kurdishaspect.com/doc062107PS.html

The Turkish Invasion of Free Kurdistan



Kurdishaspect.com - By Peter Stitt



After reading Ercan Uzan's account of the dreadful scenarios discussed at the Hudson Institute meetings recently, it has become clear (yet again) that Kurds cannot count on American or European honesty. That means there must be a "Plan B" and I hope Jalal and Masoud have already thought about this situation. If Turkey invades South Kurdistan, what should be the response?



Whilst I would have loved PKK to have put down their weapons and gone home, it was never going to happen. PKK is being used as a pretext for a Turkish invasion and destruction of the KRG but, in reality, this would have happened anyway, no matter what PKK did. So what should be the response?



If South Kurdistan is attacked, there is no PKK, there is no PUK, there is no PDK, there is just Kurdish. As soon as those tanks cross over the border there is one Kurdish nation because those tank treads will obliterate every political difference between Kurdish parties. Turkey, through its aggression, will unite the greater Kurdistan.



Conventional wisdom runs that a Turkish invasion of South Kurdistan would be a disaster for the Kurdish people but it may be the catalyst for the true unification of the Kurdish people against a common enemy, above and beyond relatively minor internal Kurdish political and tribal rivalries.



No birth is without pain, ask any Kurdish Mother! What God wills will come to pass and sometimes it is difficult, as mere humans, to see the bigger picture but the suffering of Kurdistan in the next few months may actually result in the foundation of a united Kurdish nation and the decline and fall of an aggressive and racist neighbour.



If the second largest military force in NATO is routed in the mountains, Diyarbakir becomes Amer again. I am no military tactician but I am aware of the brilliance of Kurdish peshmerga in combat in certain environments. As an American General said of the Kurdish forces following the overthrow of Saddam: "I'm glad they are on our side." I do hope you are listening Turkey.



This confrontation now seems inevitable and I am not anti-Turkish but the Turkish military is going too damned far in its anti-Kurdish activity. When the first Turkish tank rolls across the border I will be borrowing the money to fly to Howler to be with a people I love and respect, to be with them and suffer what they suffer. I'm no soldier, no military strategist, no politician, but I haven't come this far with the

Kurdish people to sit comfortably in England whilst Kurds are being attacked on their internationally recognised own land. Aside from this, I can write my account of events as a journalist and then fight for Kurdistan when required to do so.



If attacked there is ONE Kurdish people. I strongly advise Turkey to avoid its own Vietnam because that is what will come to pass. You think the end of World War One was bad Turkey with the Ottoman Empire destroyed? This one is unwinable and will, undoubtedly reduce Turkey further. Actually, go for it, invade. I think the Armenians might be interested in the outcome of this conflict.



So Turkish military High Command, you will use PKK as an excuse to try to destroy any autonomy for Kurds in South Kurdistan? Too many Kurds, too many mountains, too many people support the Kurds from outside of Kurdistan. Do you really want to make Turkey look silly? My God, you guys are dinosaurs....

Let us recall that "Amer"/"Diyarbekir" was founded as Tigranocerta (fortress of Tigran) by Armenians.