It Is Time To Contact (Non-Turkish) Muslim Associations For 1915 Genocide Recognition

[Joseph]

I meant that there are lots of Armenians who think if an Armenian is not a Christian then that person is not really an Armenian.

I've never met and Armenian who wasn't a Christian, Jew, or an atheist. I'm certain there are Armenians in Turkey who are Muslim (the majority of whom probably have no clue they are Armenian, or if they do, would never admit it). Have you?

[chinchilla]

With the arrival of Karekin II in the U.S., there was recently a question sent out by the Armenian Reporter to a few readers. The question was, "What would you like to hear Catholicos Karekin talk about during his visit?"

Here's an interesting point of view that was published:

* He doesn’t speak for us

At the risk of not seeming terribly polite or P.C., I’d have to say that the Catholicos’ visit holds very little interest for me and for many Armenians I know. The money being spent to bring him here would be better used for other things -- like an Armenian prep school, or an Armenian cultural center. The cost of every church built in Armenia of late would have been better used feeding people, or building cultural and educational institutions. Certainly the Catholicos may speak for some Armenians, but by no means all; in fact many (including myself) would find the assumption that he speaks for all Armenians offensive. I do not think that to be Armenian, one has to be a Christian. Sadly, the church itself is mediocre, antiquated, and increasingly irrelevant. I know that some people will find this view offensive; but I also feel that someone has to say these things, otherwise people just repeat the same old views that many of us simply don't believe.

[Gavur]

I meant that there are lots of Armenians who think if an Armenian is not a Christian then that person is not really an Armenian.

Yes, we are allergic to foreigners (and our own) who try to change (we just find it distastefull and lowdown) the doctrine of our Armenian Apostolic Church.Whether (mostly) its the Latin (afterthought) church or Estearn Heredicts,Zoroastrians,Shamanist,Yehovists or Islam.

[bell-the-cat]

Certainly the Catholicos may speak for some Armenians, but by no means all; in fact many (including myself) would find the assumption that he speaks for all Armenians offensive. I do not think that to be Armenian, one has to be a Christian. Sadly, the church itself is mediocre, antiquated, and increasingly irrelevant. I know that some people will find this view offensive; but I also feel that someone has to say these things, otherwise people just repeat the same old views that many of us simply don't believe.

But most atheist Armenians I've met are still atheists of the Armenian Apostolic Church.

[Gavur]

So are most Masons I meet.

[CRDA-France]

Very true. Christianity, no mater how much it has been misinterpreted and abused by it adherents, is still a religion based upon peace, love and understanding. Islam on the other hand had an auspicious start, with the Mohammed and his forces charging out of the Hejaz, killing or forceably converting anyone in its path.

It is a point of view. We can have an other one on Christianity : how did the Christians behave regarding indiginous Native-Americans in North-Central-South Americas and African with Slave Trade ?

What happened in 1915, it is not because of islam, it is because of a plannified genocide based on touranism which was an ultra-nationalist ideology. In the Ottoman Empire case, it was because of a RELIGIOUS LOSS of ISLAM. Because, in Islam, the Christian Dhimmi had to be protected. The basic structure of the genocide is not religious.

There was a political-anthropological structure :

[Turkey, colonizing country // Armenians, indiginous people]

as this other structure :

[Turkey, colonizing country // Kurds, indiginous people]


The islamophobe look (or Eurocentrist by short sightedness)
maskes turkification for only keeping forced islamization.
_____________________

other structures :

[Israel, colonizing country // Palestinians, indiginous people]

[United States, colonizing country // Red Skins, indiginous people]

The Eurocentrist look by short sightedness or by condescendance
masks the expropriation of the natives for only keeping civilizing
Europeanization or "regional ethnic quarrels".

Here is an article in Arabic on an inter-religious meeting in Lebanon including the Armenian Apostolic Church. This article dated November 30 2006 was published in Lebanese Newspaper http://alanwar.com/ar/ :

http://www.azad-hye.org/news.php?op=details&id=60

Nil
#1415

[Joseph]

It is a point of view. We can have an other one on Christianity : how did the Christians behave regarding indiginous Native-Americans in North-Central-South Americas and African with Slave Trade ?

What happened in 1915, it is not because of islam, it is because of a plannified genocide based on touranism which was an ultra-nationalist ideology. In the Ottoman Empire case, it was because of a RELIGIOUS LOSS of ISLAM. Because, in Islam, the Christian Dhimmi had to be protected. The basic structure of the genocide is not religious.

There was a political-anthropological structure :

[Turkey, colonizing country // Armenians, indiginous people]

as this other structure :

[Turkey, colonizing country // Kurds, indiginous people]


The islamophobe look (or Eurocentrist by short sightedness)
maskes turkification for only keeping forced islamization.
_____________________

other structures :

[Israel, colonizing country // Palestinians, indiginous people]

[United States, colonizing country // Red Skins, indiginous people]

The Eurocentrist look by short sightedness or by condescendance
masks the expropriation of the natives for only keeping civilizing
Europeanization or "regional ethnic quarrels".

Here is an article in Arabic on an inter-religious meeting in Lebanon including the Armenian Apostolic Church. This article dated November 30 2006 was published in Lebanese Newspaper http://alanwar.com/ar/ :

http://www.azad-hye.org/news.php?op=details&id=60

Nil
#1415

I basically wrote the same thing as you stated your first point; Christianity was founded based upon love, understanding etc. but was rather quickly perverted by its adherents

Where we differ is regarding Islam. Islam started out as a relgion based upon war and conquest. One only needs to read about the origins of Islam to know that even Muhammed had blood on his hands. He was theoppositeof Christ.

The genocide was indeed planed and carried out by Pan-Turks but even prior to the Genocide (during the rule of Abdul Hamid II for instance), Islam was used as a rallying cry for those who wanted to murder Christians.

[CRDA-France]

Islam started out as a relgion based upon war and conquest. One only needs to read about the origins of Islam to know that even Muhammed had blood on his hands. He was the opposite of Christ.

I must find the references of the Hadith which says roughly : "Islam did not defeated by sword, islam defeated the sword which arose against him."

Anyway which is important is to dialogue with islam, to contact muslim associations and more important to have muslim texts in our favor. I have created a first tool-page on Armenian websites in Arabic of the Middle East :

http://www.crda-france.org/0ab_ab/0sites1azadhye00.htm

Thanks to automatic translations such as Systran (only text less than 150 words) : http://www.systran.fr/index.html

we can have an idea what the article is about.

So it is possible to put Arabic pages in Franco-Arab websites.

Best regards to all from Paris. Congratulations for victory in the House Comittee in Washington. Nil.

PS - It seems that Mrs Pilosi's spokesman is a lady of Arab origin ?
#1510

[CRDA-France]

If politics fails, I am conviced faith and islam-christian dialogue will succeed.

Lately an important open letter was send :

A Common Word Between Us and You

138 Muslim scholars, clerics and intellectuals have unanimously come together for the first time since the days of the Prophet r to declare the common ground between Christianity and Islam. Like the Open Letter, the signatories to this message come from every denomination and school of thought in Islam. Every major Islamic country or region in the world is represented in this message, which is addressed to the leaders of all the world’s churches, and indeed to all Christians everywhere...

http://www.acommonword.com/index.php?lang=en&page=option1

Among these 138 muslim scholars or clerics, there are 15 who live in America. I have created a page for preparing contacts with them :

http://www.crda-france.org/0ab/b_commonword5america.htm

There is a research of finding their porfessionnel or religious www addresses with "Google" in order to get their e-mail @ddress.

Afterwards, there is important, delicate, work of reflexion, analyzes and writing which must not exceed one page comunicating an authentic and intense human necessity : to condemn
- the genocide of 1915 which was a crime against Islam
- and its actual denial created and kept by the kemalist ideology perpetuating the loss of islam in 1915.

Here are the two empty pages of

- the letter in English : http://www.crda-france.org/0ab/b_commonword0en1.htm
- the letter in French : http://www.crda-france.org/0ab/b_commonword0fr1.htm

There is a more important work to do with this page dealing with the scholars of Arab countries :

http://www.crda-france.org/0ab/b_commonword2arab.htm

We shall overcome ! Take care.

Best regards from Paris. Nil
#1625

[CRDA-France]

www EUROPE page of Muslim signers of the Call of A Common Word Between Us and You getting ready :

http://www.crda-france.org/0ab/b_commonword1europe.htm

Nil
#1646