Denial of AG by Dr. Ariel Barkan - Univ. of Michigan

[Gavur]

Interesting link , http://www.newsmeat.com/fec/bystate_...AN&first=HELEN

[Gavur]

I think you should contect Dr. Dennis R. Papazian,he is the Director of the Armenian Research Center: University of Michigan-Dearborn.

[bell-the-cat]

Thank you for the link - I did visit it. I am not sure what is interesting about this private support of several politicians - except for the fact that some of them are Jewish as evil "doctor" Barkan - which makes the whole story even more ironical. And - I did write to Dr. Sanjian, the Director of the Armenian Research Center of the University of Michigan - he never answered me. I am still looking for the Foundation's contact information to communicate this matter to them - any help with finding their phone number and/or e-mail address will be deeply appreciated. Also, I feel sad about the way the message was addressed to me - that is "you should write to.." since I hoped to hear something like "WE SHOULD DO THIS AND THAT" - especially from the members of the forum that is supposed to be dedicated to the issues of the Armenian Genocide. I feel somewhat disappointed... but it will not stop me in my fight against this evil "doctor". Also, i still hope for other honest people to join me.

Please, stop all this as from now.
What are you trying to accomplish with this witch-hunt? Your inserting of inverted commas around the word "doctor" reveals how pathetic things have got. Whatever this individual you have taken such a dislike to may or may not be, he undoubtedly is a doctor. The way things are going, I hope no honest person will wish to join you, (except where "honest person" is in inverted commas).
You should be arguing against the substance of his statements and exposing their falsehoods - you should not be descending to the level of wanting to wipe someone out. It is his right to say and believe whatever he wants, within obvious limits, and nothing of what he has said has any bearing on his profession.

[Gavur]

Thank you for the link - I did visit it. I am not sure what is interesting about this private support of several politicians - except for the fact that some of them are Jewish as evil "doctor" Barkan - which makes the whole story even more ironical. And - I did write to Dr. Sanjian, the Director of the Armenian Research Center of the University of Michigan - he never answered me. I am still looking for the Foundation's contact information to communicate this matter to them - any help with finding their phone number and/or e-mail address will be deeply appreciated. Also, I feel sad about the way the message was addressed to me - that is "you should write to.." since I hoped to hear something like "WE SHOULD DO THIS AND THAT" - especially from the members of the forum that is supposed to be dedicated to the issues of the Armenian Genocide. I feel somewhat disappointed... but it will not stop me in my fight against this evil "doctor". Also, i still hope for other honest people to join me.

Still, contacting Mr.Papazian is not a bad idea,I like to hear his 2 cents on this issue.

[bell-the-cat]

My respected opponent, I would allow myself to address your message point by point:
1. Please, stop all this as from now.
What exactly you are demanding me to stop? "All" - meaning what?

2. What are you trying to accomplish with this witch-hunt?
My intention is very simple: people who behave the way Barkan behaves must be punished for their deeds. Mel Gibson was punished for a lesser "crime"- forgive me for using quotes, I just like doing it.

3. Your inserting of inverted commas around the word "doctor" reveals how pathetic things have got.
I am not sure what is pathetic about the things and, in this regard, I am not sure if we are on the same page with understanding of the meaning of the word "pathetic" (quotes, again! it looks like I cannot stop using them!).

4. Whatever this individual you have taken such a dislike to may or may not be, he undoubtedly is a doctor.
4.a. My dislike of the beloved Monsignor Barkan has just one reason for it: his nationalism and chauvinism. Actually, it came to two reasons... well, they can be counted as one... And - this is the reason for which he was punished on many internet forums and was even expelled from some.
4.b. Mea culpa! indeed, he is a doctor, but - read my message carefully: I am saying that I cannot use the word "doctor" (again, sorry for using the quotes) in conjunction with the person who proudly exposes his horrifying ideas in public. He can whisper anything he wants - to the ears of his close friends but not to the whole world - again, an example with poor Mel will be appropriate, I think...

5. The way things are going, I hope no honest person will wish to join you, (except where "honest person" is in inverted commas).
I am confused here - really. Which "way" and which "things" you are talking about? Sorry for the quotes - I appear to be unstoppable in using them - I probably have to seek some kind of a therapy... As for the honest people - the honest and decent people are the ones who would suggest how and what to say in order to corner Barkan, instead of saying that "no honest person will wish to join you" - quotes, again - forgive me - or not?... Besides, I hope you are not talking for all honest people in the world.. I really do...

6. You should be arguing against the substance of his statements and exposing their falsehoods - you should not be descending to the level of wanting to wipe someone out.
Forgive me for being emotional and carried away from the actual "falsehoods" - indeed, for an "honest person" it is easy to get emotional when someone says: "hey, there was no Genocide, it is all lie and fake!" As for my desire - it is not to "wipe him out" (does it mean - to annihilate, physically?! you are so bad!) - my desire is barely to slap him on his bottom - you know...

7. It is his right to say and believe whatever he wants, within obvious limits, and nothing of what he has said has any bearing on his profession.
7.a. It is indeed his right to believe anything he wants.
7.b. I believe, any civilized society has restrictions on expression of nationalistic and chauvinistic views and ideas in public - and please, don't tell me that democracy should allow such things: if they are allowed, it is not a democracy but rather anarchy.
7.c. Please, elaborate on the "obvious limits" - I am extremely curious about their "obviousness". Was Mel Gibson screwed on the "obvious limits"?
7.d. I must disagree with you: there are certain professional activities that require people to behave in a certain way in public. I am aware of an example when one young medical doctor was expelled from the program for getting a couple of drinks and then dancing on the table in one of the local pubs (not even half-naked - just dancing!). Now, I wonder: was table-dancing more horrifying thing than to say that there was no Genocide and the Armenians are just a flock of liars? Please, indulge me...

People like you have been indulged for far too long. Unless the Armenian diaspora can get its act together and kick out all the poseurs like you who arrive and hijack every issue for their own self-gratification and grandstanding then all communications on Armenian-related issues will forever be destined for the trash-can. All you and your sort can do is whine and jump about like a mob of spoilt brats, then you express surprise nobody pays any attention to your antics!

[Gavur]

I did write him, too - still no answer. In fact, I would like to hear your opinion on the following matter. I shared my feelings about the nasty behavior of the nationalistic bastard Barkan with one of my acquaintances who is an old, extremely wise and noble (both by heart and by blood) gentleman. Here is what he said to me: "There are so many things in the world where you [that is me] can be active productively, and already active - why to waste your energy and efforts on such a low life form as Barkan? Just stay away from this kind of people and surround yourself with the good ones." I responded that I understand him and agree - with my mind but not with my heart..

I think we must chanel our energies not against individual deniers but entity's (like the ADL)that gives them the air of legimitacy, which is garbage of course .

[Steph]

I think we must chanel our energies not against individual deniers but entity's (like the ADL)that gives them the air of legimitacy, which is garbage of course .

Gavur, I usually agree with most of your input, but this time I think that each of us should put our efforts into condemning/challenging denialists whether in the singular or groups, whichever and whenever we are able.

[Gavur]

Your point is well taken. Does it mean that in your opinion the organized denials present a bigger threat? I am just trying to digest it as an idea. Also, if an otherwise respected member of the society such as Barkan - of an decent profession and obvious personal achievements raises his nationalistic voice - do you think we will benefit more from targeting our efforts against these mentioned organized denials than by wasting our efforts in a fight against individuals? It is all very important - strategically and I am trying to figure it out by talking it through, loud... Then again - why the Jewish community of the Hollywood decided to punish poor pal Mel instead of going against new-Nazis?... Finally, could it be that the organized anti-Armenians will use Barkan and alike as some kind of example(s) of "honest" and "independent" people who are joining their camp?... Your opinion on tis matter will be deeply appreciated.
Barkan is certainly not the biggest bird in the flock - so it is a question of how efficient would it be to use a "heavy gun against a small birdie".. .. figuratively speaking...

Have you guys contacted him?

[email protected]

Btw:educated does not mean credible nor respected .

[Joseph]

I suggest NOT contacting this person. IMHO he has some mental/psychiatric problem(s) despite reaching the highest mountains - professionally. As I mentioned in one of my previous posts, this individual is also a collector and a scholar (not the best one but thinking high of himself) of the edged weapons. He is often acting under different pseudonyms ("stage names") but is always revealed due to his style and nationalistic behavior. He was expelled from several forums yet remains active at certain ones that support chauvinism. He cannot be addressed for a simple reason: he cannot hear anybody except for himself. In fact, he enjoys insulting people and showing his "superiority" - pretty much similar to how he proclaimed Genocide as non-existing! One of Barkan's "stage names" is Resh Lakish - a name taken from a historical character, who was incredibly strong and at the same time wise: he dedicated substantial period of his life to studying the Torah. However, let us not to forget that in the early part of his life Resh Lakish was nothing but a bandit, a leader of the gang that was robbing the people! Resh Lakish is remembered not only for his wisdom as the Torah's scholar but also as an extremely violent person:

http://www.ou.org/chagim/elul/reshlakish.htm

And this is a pseudonym that Barkan chooses for himself! Is there anything else I have to add to describe this sick person? While tracing Barkan's activity, one can find him writing against several nations: Armenians, Egyptians, Palestinians, Persians, Greek, Russians - the list can be continued - we should just give him some time! In one of his postings, Barkan called Russian bladesmith an "Iranian agent" - isn't that an indication of how sick this person is?

Here is an example (quoted from Amazon) of what people write to Barkan when he is presenting him under the above mentioned stage name:
"Hi Ariel. Well, so you were tired to see your review deleted 4 (FOUR!) times from the reviews list and you posted it here in the attempt to fool someone. Well, here I'm my friend. As already stated in the review deleted (4 times...) by Amazon I have to state to everybody read your review that you have a personal, long standing and absolutely childish issue against the author so you're attempting to diminish his 10 years work with your near-to-null knowledge about the matter quoting nothing historically correct. Everybody in the scholars environment is understanding more and more who you really are thanks to your actions. I know you loved this one so I'm repeating it : we've gathered enough material about you to bury you under your own childish hate and the more you act, blinded by hate, the worst your results are.
Cheers "

As you can see from the above quote, he is not respected at all - yet he continues barking at each and every fence.

I also tried to address him personally - but received in response nothing except for demagogic nonsense barking. Here is what I wrote (quoted from Amazon):

"Dear Professor Ariel Barkan, M.D., aka Monsignor Resh Lakish,
Please allow me to start addressing you by saying that I have unconditioned respect to your dedicated service to the species of Homo sapiens - I mean your work as a Medical (real!) Doctor and as an Educator (Professor).
As you have probably noticed, your review of questionable taste that appeared under various names (why? are you a movie star or a pop-singer that needs a "professional" pseudonym?) was removed several times already. It was removed from Amazon and it was also pointed out to you on several discussion forums that your attacks of poor taste against Mr. Khorasani and his book are absolutely unethical and inappropriate.
Without a doubt, you are a broadly educated individual with broad interests - and you show in-depth knowledge in many disciplines, which alone deserves the deepest respect. However, allow me to humbly remind you that even assuming for a moment that you are right and Mr. Khorasani is wrong, the way you proclaim your "rightness" (that is in a rude, impolite and unethical form) will bring you more harm than good: Nobody even wants to see if you are right, while everybody sees a person who is addictively attacking a very hard-working, dedicated and honest researcher, Mr. Khorasani.
I can feel pain in your heart, which probably does not allow you to show your humane goodness - I can assure you that Mr. Khorasani is not the cause for your pain. Open your heart, be frank and kind, be constructive and positive in your criticism, see people's good intentions - and you will be surprised how many people will respond with an open smile while making eye contact with you, how many people will say that they want you to be their friend, and how many people will then tell you that they are going to support you - no matter what. In fact, this is what all of us, decent people, are saying to Mr. Khorasani now - we support him.
Sincerely, with the very best wishes from the bottom of my heart,
Michael."

Here is the bottom line as I see it: since this person cannot be placed into an appropriate institution, he has to be stopped. Again, this is just my personal opinion and I do know that there are some people (also here) who think that I am doing it for my own pleasure. Let me re-assure these people: there is nothing pleasing in digging into these feces. But it must be done.

Barkan really is nuts...and people like him are usually attracted to causes/ conspiracy theories that are equally insane, hence his denial of the Armenian Genocide - and probably all other genocides where Jews aren't victims ala Guenter Lewy. I don't think there is anything we can do to hinder his career and I'm not sure we should stoop to that level although I have no problem letting others, his bosses, etc. know about his views. This may sound naive to some of you, but let people come to their own judgement and see for themselves, a character like Barkan almost always show their true colors. He probably needs to no help in making folks despise him.

[Joseph]

I think we must chanel our energies not against individual deniers but entity's (like the ADL)that gives them the air of legimitacy, which is garbage of course .

I agree.