Let's rewind the movie

[Joseph]

the acknowlegement of armenian genocide is very important for me.if nothing, for moral reasons. but long time has passed over it and it was during ottoman period. so unlike myself, many turks wont be sensitive about this issue. also our state has a great allergy to this and misinforming its people.

many turks will explain the situation like this, life was like that 100 years ago. there were no human rights in those days.they killed and we killed.so dont judge turks with the standards of 21th century.

however,turks are directly responsible for the things done to christians to make them leave turkey during the Turkish republic period ,so clearly, that noone can deny this,even a Turkish nationalist . those abnormal taxes for nonchristians was nothing but a highest degree of racizm. also in september 6-7 1955 is the most ashamed day of turks , when all nonmuslims including the jews were attacked and beaten by turks ,their shops were plunderaged .

turkish state refuses the genocide because they carried out the project until today. even today trying to finish the job by sending out the remaining few left,100 or so thousand of christians.thats why they still kill them. to scare the rest and make them leave totally .so that we can all be pure islamists.

now, ı dont know the exact reason of this. may be turks leading the state in the past,swore not to forgive and not to live with christians together after 1900s, loosing all the lands and half of its population,about 8 million.and today that promise is still valid.

or maybe, turks are very much scared that christianity is still a very great threat for turkey that, country can any time seperate into many small ethnic countries just like former yugoslavia.

or maybe it is assumed a great victory to destroy all christian culture out of anatolia like cleaning the germs. and people who are proud of this can never say sorry for nothing.

ı must note that,every single turk that ı have talked in turkey who has met an armenian in turkey,told me that he-she liked them very much.
armenians ,individually are very lively people. we like them individually, but we cant say sorry. and we still dont want them here.strange.


there is a paradox here as anyone can note.

turks want to be in eu ,but dont want any christians in turkey,

turks want peace with armenians ,but want them to accept that genocide was their fault,

turks claim that they are seculars,but only muslims and only sunni muslims are welcomed in this secular system.

turks claim that ,there is human rights and democracy in turkey but never feel sorry for very very very discriminative tax rates for nonmuslims in the past.

turks claim that there is property rights in turkey ,but again not for nonmuslims.

turks claim that men and women are equal and acrtually all citizens are equal. ı laugh this with my beautiful ass....

turks want modern new mosques everywhere in west,they want to hear ezan loud,they want to dress and walk around strangely islamist way,without learning the language of the country they live in,they want to walk with turkish flags on the streets of foreign countries, they want to merry good muslim ,clean,girls from home villages of turkey.

but no churches are allowed to be repaired in turkey,let the new ones to be built, no gay bars are allowed and enough ı dont want to write more

and turks wonder,why no western people likes us,why we are not wanted, west is racist, oh my Allah

lal.

Lal,

Thank you for your insight. It may not be pretty but it is sadly the truth and I have noted all those things firsthand. My wife grew up in Turkey and her family is still there so I have experienced or observed all those things. Though others on this forum may not want to believe it, what you have just written sums up where we are today very succinctly.


"Official people do not like the Armenians, because in their hearts they ask: Why have the Armenian people throughout one thousand years not become Muslims and have resisted Turkification? "

- Rev. Krikor Aghabaloghlu of Istanbul

[bell-the-cat]

Or maybe the Istanbul Armenians are conditioned to let bygones be bygones and to "look to the future" instead of the past like their fellow Turks. Have you ever considered that! God you bug!

My informant also told me of the contempt that was given to him, when he arrived in America in the 50s, by those Armenians (maybe Armenians just like Phantom?) who had left Turkey as refugees in the WW1 or immediate post-WW1 period, or their descendants. These American-Armenians considered any Armenians who stayed in Turkey after that period to be sub-human, little better than the Turks they lived amongst. That (as well as the need to create a simplisitic sound-bite version of the history of the Armenian genocide) is probably the basic reason why Armenians have tended to ignore this period: most don't consider its victims or its survivors to be worthy of recognition.

[imported_crusader1492]

My informant also told me of the contempt that was given to him, when he arrived in America in the 50s, by those Armenians (maybe Armenians just like Phantom?) who had left Turkey as refugees in the WW1 or immediate post-WW1 period, or their descendants. These American-Armenians considered any Armenians who stayed in Turkey after that period to be sub-human, little better than the Turks they lived amongst. That (as well as the need to create a simplisitic sound-bite version of the history of the Armenian genocide) is probably the basic reason why Armenians have tended to ignore this period: most don't consider its victims or its survivors to be worthy of recognition.

Although I have never personally whitnessed this behavior, I would not discount it. Regardless Bell, what is your point? That diaspora Armenians are mean people?

You know, you would do better here if you did not come across as such a hateful malcontent...just a bit of advise.

[phantom]

My informant also told me of the contempt that was given to him, when he arrived in America in the 50s, by those Armenians (maybe Armenians just like Phantom?) who had left Turkey as refugees in the WW1 or immediate post-WW1 period, or their descendants. These American-Armenians considered any Armenians who stayed in Turkey after that period to be sub-human, little better than the Turks they lived amongst. That (as well as the need to create a simplisitic sound-bite version of the history of the Armenian genocide) is probably the basic reason why Armenians have tended to ignore this period: most don't consider its victims or its survivors to be worthy of recognition.

That's funny. I came to the U.S. in the 1970s from Istanbul, Turkey. I befriended many Turks and Armenians in America, and none of the Armenians ever treated me the way you described above.

[Steph]

That's funny. I came to the U.S. in the 1970s from Istanbul, Turkey. I befriended many Turks and Armenians in America, and none of the Armenians ever treated me the way you described above.

Phantom, disinformation spread from unquoted sources is a common tool used to further particular agendas. This particular agenda has been long in coming (re-read many, many posts by Bell), I'm still confused as to it's point, purpose or goal, other than to, once again, paint Armenians in a bad light.

Bell, if I'm wrong, please correct me.

[hitite]

I'm still confused as to it's point, purpose or goal, other than to, once again, paint Armenians in a bad light.

I will not defend Bell but as far as I can see this is not an Armenian masturbation site. Whats wrong with painting bad Armenians in a bad light?

[imported_crusader1492]

That's funny. I came to the U.S. in the 1970s from Istanbul, Turkey. I befriended many Turks and Armenians in America, and none of the Armenians ever treated me the way you described above.

Just to add to that, I have cousins that came fto the US from Turkey in the 70s and 80...they were welcome with open arms.

[phantom]

I will not defend Bell but as far as I can see this is not an Armenian masturbation site. Whats wrong with painting bad Armenians in a bad light?

There's nothing wrong with telling the truth. But if you're going to stereotype, the least you can do is get it right.

[lal]

Lal,

Thank you for your insight. It may not be pretty but it is sadly the truth and I have noted all those things firsthand. My wife grew up in Turkey and her family is still there so I have experienced or observed all those things. Though others on this forum may not want to believe it, what you have just written sums up where we are today very succinctly.


"Official people do not like the Armenians, because in their hearts they ask: Why have the Armenian people throughout one thousand years not become Muslims and have resisted Turkification? "

- Rev. Krikor Aghabaloghlu of Istanbul

lets think now, if the foreign policies of turkey about armenian genocide is for the benefit of the people of turkey?

well,untill after 1945 ,the end of ww2, ı think it is understandable the denial of armenian genocide , because turkey wasnt a self confident ,well established,and strong enough to face her history then.

but in time ,if turkey has accepted her historic fault towards armenians and used the power of greek orthodox patriarch in istanbul and was able to keep her minorities in turkey as turkish citizens,instead of using all kinds of torture to send them away, today we wouldnt be a begger country ,so much humiliated and isolated by eu.also we wouldnt face a very staunced ,united armenian diaspora as an effective enemy ,causing billions of dollars to loose,beside its wrsening image.


christians of turkey were the key to join to the civilization club. but we wasted it. it is too late now. our state is still continiung the great battle against christians,while trying to enter eu,anyways.

this is a question in my mind.
turkey, either dont want really to join eu,or turkey only want to use the economic benefits of being a candidate to eu or the islamist government on the office is using eu goal to eliminate the power of army who is the guardian of secularizm.

but one thing ım sure, turkish state dont want eu by heart.

and,being out of eu,means sliding down to the islamic hell of middle east.

so ı can summarise it like this. turkish states is not working for its people.

lal

[lal]

and now lets see what armenins doing?

diaspora armenians are doing their best to harm turkey, by many methods. even terrorizm has been tried for many years by asala terrorists, killing 50 or more turkish diplomats. they try to harm turkeys turizm sector. they try to turkey be denied by eu, they try to make it crime the denial of genocide in every country of the world, they support kurdish rebells in turkey etc.

and individually when they meet a turk , great majority act very bad and insult them.

armenian state also cant solve karabağ ıssue, demands lands from turkey.



in my opinion ,untill recent years,this kind of hostile style was needed to establish the armenian genocide to be known by all world.

but after reaching a point ,after some more damages,armenians will be unable to harm turkey any more, also,world people will loose their interest in armenian issue.

than,this time armenians will loose the chance for peace for ever.

this dog fight ,if goes on for ever ,will keep both countries backward and stop them to advance faster, not only in economy but also in human rights issues.

also, diaspora armenians as a result of reaching the final point and lost public interest, will start loosing their armenian identities and assimilate in the countries they live in.

we have to solve this problem for the benefit of everybody. this is a meaningless burden on us.

yes, turkey must apologise, but armenians must also be ready to accept the apaology,taking some hard steps back.

lal