Sözde Turkish Genocide

[Zane]

WWI-era mass grave with 20,000 skeletons found in Bitlis
A mass grave has been discovered in the eastern city of Bitlis containing an estimated 20,000 corpses, sparking claims that they are the bodies of Turks killed by Armenian gangs and Cossacks.
The bones in the graveyard found in Mutki belong to children, women and the elderly, as well as soldiers, the Cihan news agency quoted Törehan Serdar, head of the Association of Victims of World War I Massacres by Armenians, as saying. Serdar claimed that in 1915, when the Russian military invaded the city of Bitlis for the first time, Cossacks and local Armenian gangs massacred approximately 20,000 people in the Kavakbaşı village of Mutki.
Serdar said those who carried out the massacre buried the dead in mass graves to conceal the evidence of the violence. He said although research teams have established that skeletons found in the mass grave belong to Turks, work investigation of the site in not yet complete.
Examination of the site has been interrupted by poor weather and hindered by the roughness of the terrain, noted Serdar. He said as soon as the weather conditions improve, teams will resume work. “The violence here will be shown as proof. The Armenians know how to accuse Turkey of genocide with bills, but they either do not know their history or they simply choose to ignore it. Here is proof of who really massacred whom,” added Serdar.
25.01.2008
Today’s Zaman with wires İstanbul

1. Why is it that Zaman will publish this, but ignores the defilement of the mardin Grave?
2. If I'm not mistaken, 20,000 people would have made "Kavakbasi village" one of the largest cities in Turkey in 1915, and yet, It's impossible to find it in a period map.
3. Is this article meant for domestic turkish consumption, if so, why's it in English?

[Joseph]

WWI-era mass grave with 20,000 skeletons found in Bitlis
A mass grave has been discovered in the eastern city of Bitlis containing an estimated 20,000 corpses, sparking claims that they are the bodies of Turks killed by Armenian gangs and Cossacks.
The bones in the graveyard found in Mutki belong to children, women and the elderly, as well as soldiers, the Cihan news agency quoted Törehan Serdar, head of the Association of Victims of World War I Massacres by Armenians, as saying. Serdar claimed that in 1915, when the Russian military invaded the city of Bitlis for the first time, Cossacks and local Armenian gangs massacred approximately 20,000 people in the Kavakbaşı village of Mutki.
Serdar said those who carried out the massacre buried the dead in mass graves to conceal the evidence of the violence. He said although research teams have established that skeletons found in the mass grave belong to Turks, work investigation of the site in not yet complete.
Examination of the site has been interrupted by poor weather and hindered by the roughness of the terrain, noted Serdar. He said as soon as the weather conditions improve, teams will resume work. “The violence here will be shown as proof. The Armenians know how to accuse Turkey of genocide with bills, but they either do not know their history or they simply choose to ignore it. Here is proof of who really massacred whom,” added Serdar.
25.01.2008
Today’s Zaman with wires İstanbul

1. Why is it that Zaman will publish this, but ignores the defilement of the mardin Grave?
2. If I'm not mistaken, 20,000 people would have made "Kavakbasi village" one of the largest cities in Turkey in 1915, and yet, It's impossible to find it in a period map.
3. Is this article meant for domestic turkish consumption, if so, why's it in English?

Good points. Knowing that the Armenian population was quite large in Bitlis yet one would be hard pressed to find an Armenian today who's family originated from Bitlis, I think we know who those people really were.

[imported_crusader1492]

This is a blantant lie (but, what else is new with the Turkish government)!

This crime scene is to big to hide so they are claiming these people were killed by Armenians (and cossaks for good measure). What else are they going to say, the truth of what these sacred remains represent?

I would like for them to explain the logistics on how "Armenian gangs" managed to killed 20,000 people at once and then had the time and the means to dig a mass grave.

If this story is true (that remains were found), independent historians will pick the Turkish lies apart.

[bell-the-cat]

WWI-era mass grave with 20,000 skeletons found in Bitlis
A mass grave has been discovered in the eastern city of Bitlis containing an estimated 20,000 corpses, sparking claims that they are the bodies of Turks killed by Armenian gangs and Cossacks.
The bones in the graveyard found in Mutki belong to children, women and the elderly, as well as soldiers, the Cihan news agency quoted Törehan Serdar, head of the Association of Victims of World War I Massacres by Armenians, as saying. Serdar claimed that in 1915, when the Russian military invaded the city of Bitlis for the first time, Cossacks and local Armenian gangs massacred approximately 20,000 people in the Kavakbaşı village of Mutki.
Serdar said those who carried out the massacre buried the dead in mass graves to conceal the evidence of the violence. He said although research teams have established that skeletons found in the mass grave belong to Turks, work investigation of the site in not yet complete.
Examination of the site has been interrupted by poor weather and hindered by the roughness of the terrain, noted Serdar. He said as soon as the weather conditions improve, teams will resume work. “The violence here will be shown as proof. The Armenians know how to accuse Turkey of genocide with bills, but they either do not know their history or they simply choose to ignore it. Here is proof of who really massacred whom,” added Serdar.
25.01.2008
Today’s Zaman with wires İstanbul

1. Why is it that Zaman will publish this, but ignores the defilement of the mardin Grave?
2. If I'm not mistaken, 20,000 people would have made "Kavakbasi village" one of the largest cities in Turkey in 1915, and yet, It's impossible to find it in a period map.
3. Is this article meant for domestic turkish consumption, if so, why's it in English?

Mutki is the name of a district of Mush province, and has a district capital of the same name. Kavakbasi is a little village at some considerable distance to the west of Mutki.

I suspect that there will be no such village (under any name) on period maps because the entire valley there has been recently flooded by a dam and Kavakbasi is sited at the very edge of the water. So it is probably a new village founded to replace ones flooded by the dam. I'll check some old maps to see if there is an older settlement there or near there.

I know of Kavakbasi because it would be on the road (if a road exists around the new lake) to an Armenian monastery called Surb Alberikvank that I had intended to try to visit some years ago. This remote area was actually part of Armenian Sassun - so if these human remains exist, they are probably Armenian.

[Joseph]

This is a blantant lie (but, what else is new with the Turkish government)!

This crime scene is to big to hide so they are claiming these people were killed by Armenians (and cossaks for good measure). What else are they going to say, the truth of what these sacred remains represent?

I would like for them to explain the logistics on how "Armenian gangs" managed to killed 20,000 people at once and then had the time and the means to dig a mass grave.

If this story is true (that remains were found), independent historians will pick the Turkish lies apart.

A mass grave that was only found recently too.

[imported_crusader1492]

A mass grave that was only found recently too.

...in other words, this is the best explaination the Turkish government could come up with in a short period of time.

You know Joseph, if I read Bell's post correctly, some of the people in that mass grave could be my relatives. My grandfather was from Mush.

God damn it!

[bell-the-cat]

Kavakbasi is marked on a regional map from the 1970s - so there probably will have been a settlement there in 1915. I'll have a look at some older maps in a day or so to try and identify its old name.

[Zane]

Is it just me, or are you guys uncomfortable with the fact that Turkey controls the very evidence, which it says is needed to convict Turkey of Genocide? This would be considered grossly unfair one second in a court of law. They sanitized the Mardin site, and they have the ability, and the motive to root around others like this one, posing them as Turkish graves by tossing in a few Islamic artifacts for photographs. I dread the day when BBC remarks on the genocide that "no mass graves have been found," or "Turks contend these were victims of Armenians." They aren't too far from saying this as is.

[bell-the-cat]

Is it just me, or are you guys uncomfortable with the fact that Turkey controls the very evidence, which it says is needed to convict Turkey of Genocide? This would be considered grossly unfair one second in a court of law. They sanitized the Mardin site, and they have the ability, and the motive to root around others like this one, posing them as Turkish graves by tossing in a few Islamic artifacts for photographs. I dread the day when BBC remarks on the genocide that "no mass graves have been found," or "Turks contend these were victims of Armenians." They aren't too far from saying this as is.

They only control it because you Armenians let them.

[imported_crusader1492]

Is it just me, or are you guys uncomfortable with the fact that Turkey controls the very evidence, which it says is needed to convict Turkey of Genocide? This would be considered grossly unfair one second in a court of law. They sanitized the Mardin site, and they have the ability, and the motive to root around others like this one, posing them as Turkish graves by tossing in a few Islamic artifacts for photographs. I dread the day when BBC remarks on the genocide that "no mass graves have been found," or "Turks contend these were victims of Armenians." They aren't too far from saying this as is.

Exactly Zane. The Turks are like murderers with a bottle of bleach and a chainsaw.
The other thing that bothers me is that they are desecrating this grave and furthering the denial to a higher level with the remains of our martyrs.

The Armenian Government should be screaming there heads off to get access to this site.

There is nothing to stop the Turkish government from saying these reamins are that of Turks because, as I understand, back in that era, Armenians and Turks were indistinguishable when it came to dress.

With that said, what specific evidence can be found there definitively prove that these remains are Armenian?

As Bell is doing, old maps and historic documents will ultimately show the truth (which is of no consequence to Turkey).