Hello I am new here

[muratkanat6907]

Hi, I'm a junior member,
I live in Ankara. I'm here because I'm trying to "put my feet into other's shoes".

[1.5 million]

Hi, I'm a junior member,
I live in Ankara. I'm here because I'm trying to "put my feet into other's shoes".

I would suggest then that you take some time to read threads in the archives and particualry posts by those of us who actively post here - then maybe you can try to ask us some intelligent questions about how we feel as we do and what we might know or not know etc and then you might truly learn something - and perhaps us as well. But if you come here to preach to us as if we are somehow ignorant of these events - even ignorant of Turkish views and issues regarding these events - then i would say that you are wasting your and our time. So what will it be?

[muratkanat6907]

Well,
Just read my posts in discussions then you'll know the answer.
I'm opposed ignorant people here in Turkey and and also those from Armenian side.

I would suggest then that you take some time to read threads in the archives and particualry posts by those of us who actively post here - then maybe you can try to ask us some intelligent questions about how we feel as we do and what we might know or not know etc and then you might truly learn something - and perhaps us as well. But if you come here to preach to us as if we are somehow ignorant of these events - even ignorant of Turkish views and issues regarding these events - then i would say that you are wasting your and our time. So what will it be?

[Jade]

The introduction is a bit late as I didn't even realize such a thread existed but thanks to Helen now I am aware and ready to introduce myself=): As I have already written in my posts, I am a Turk living in Belgium. I moved to Belgium because of my father's business, we have currently been living in this relatively rainy country for six years now and I attend an international school here. Growing up far from my country I was more independent about questioning it. As I have mentioned in my posts before, the "Armenian Genocide" has always fascinated me not only because I am very interested in history, but also because of its controversy and of course because it involves my country. I would have loved to talk face to face with Armenians about the issue and hear what they had to say but unfortunately I don't know any personally. I have heard all my life what the Turks had to say about the issue and I believed that I was mature enough and could be objective enough to hear what our neighbours, the Armenians had to say about it. Which is exactly the reason for my joining this forum. I have not developed an opinion about the issue yet as I am fairly new to the whole idea and I believe that before anyone could form an opinion about such an important and international issue, one must be thoroughly informed. I have not come here to preach, (as I have said I am not adequately informed about the issue and do not find it ethical to make false accusations) but I have come here to listen, to learn and to discuss. The members of this forum have been so far very welcoming for which I am extremely grateful. Being a Turk, I was a bit scared of coming here, afterall, I descend from a line of people who killed your ancestors. But I have found that the people I have talked to in this forum are all very civilized and are willing to discuss. I know that I cannot change history and cannot bring the dead back, but I know that I can perhaps make amends and try to understand. Right, having said too much already about myself, I would just like to thank you all again for the welcome I have received and to say that I very much look forward to future discussions about this issue that concerns both of our nations and therefore, a common future.

[imported_Armine]

Introduction

Dear all,


First of all I want to say that I'm very glad to have found this site. It is a good feeling to be among Armenian people and sharing thoughts and conversations with each other. To share the feeling of being proud of whom you are and where you came from.

My name is Armine and I’m living in the Netherlands.

My father is Armenian and my mother is Dutch. My brother and I were born in Istanbul (Nişantaşı). After 5 years my mother and father moved back to the Netherlands
My father comes from a real wealthy family. My father was born in Istanbul as well and his mothers’ side of the family comes originally from Constantinople (Istanbul). The grandfather of my fathers mother Kirkor Camgocian (born in 1895 we still have pictures of him) owned a heather factory working 400 men for him. He always went together with his employees to work by tram/bus. He always said they make my factory what is today I need to treat them with the same kind of respect. He never went to the factory by car and driver.

The mother of my fathers father Agavni Kemencian (we have still pictures from 1900) and the rest of his father’s side of the family come originally from the Van area. They moved from there to Constantinople (Istanbul).

Since I was a little girl I was very fascinated and interested in the stories my father told me bout our Armenian Family and history.
When I grew up I began to read more history books about the Armenians. And I started to learn more about were we came from and who we were. I began to read more but also began to see things differently. I did research read about Abdul Hamid about the War with the Russians, the young Turks etc

When I was little my father never told me those horrible stories about the massacres but I saw in him that there was something that made him very angry. I still can see this anger.

He also told me that he heard things from his mother’s grandfather (Kirkor) because at that time (during the massacres by the Turks) he was around 20 years old. My father did not tell me everything but he told me how his family helped the orphans. They helped building up and supporting orphanage houses and they use to donate money for clothes/food and education. My father also told me ones that Antranik Pasha comes from our family and that he killed many Turks and that they were very afraid of him. Antranik Pasha comes from my Fathers mothers and here fathers side of the family. Because he was very much hated by Turks the Changed there name to Bayer. Maybe some people wont believe this but I do and that’s way I’m trying to set up a genealogy but this is very hard to do. Maybe some of you can help me with some advise how can I find out more. This weekend I’m going to my parents again and then I will ask some more about Antranik Pasha. He said his family told him this. Maybe he can tell me more about when he was born or who from the father’s side he was.

Because my family lived in Constantinople they were less at risk to be killed by the Turks. But because they were afraid to be killed they changed their surname. And that’s way my surname is now Seynur and not Kemencian.

Now days I feel that same anger towards the Turkish government and most of the Turkish people. There are of course exceptions and I have Turkish friends as well. They lie generation after generation and they believe in their own lies but that was I believe the purpose of it all.

I also feel anger for their constantly lying and defending their selves. Telling that we killed all the Turks. I wrote letters to politicians as well as to the Turkish ones that were thrown from the list here in the Netherlands. But never received any response from them. Sometimes I come across Turkish forum sites, which tell so many lies about the history and turning everything around. That I wrote whole stories (doing research as well of course), which they removed every time.

They call you names but whenever they are offended you are not aloud. They scream about freedom of speech when they think harm is done to them. Well they should have a look at their own country. I have no Turkish passport or identity card anymore because I had problems with this before (because it says on your identity card that you are a Christian/Armenian). My father as well but nobody said anything about this. Look at Hrant Dink Turkish people say Armenians did this or they say he was not killed of what he said about the Genocide. I know Turkey I know their politics I know how they are.
As when we were little we were not allowed to tell people we were Armenians. How can they say they live in peace with other religions that’s what they want you to believe but meanwhile……

I can go on and on about the discussions I had with Turkish people and that it makes me angry. Instead I try to help out Armenia by donating money and clothes and collecting clothes to give to organizations. I also went to Armenia 7 years ago. I hope to go sometime with my father.

But I cannot help it I still get angry from time to time and then I call my father and talk to him about it. That makes me feel good because I know he thinks the same way and that we understand each other on this issue. Whenever we are in Istanbul we go to the Armenian graveyard to pay respect to our family. I always go with my father ever since I was little. We use to go hand in hand and my father then drinks because of his emotions and cry’s. He has only showed his emotions to me because he said you are exactly like me we understand each other without talking. And of course I love my mom and all the other family I have as well. But this is a special bond I have with my father.

Thank you for giving me the chance to tell my story.


Regards,
Armine

[Joseph]

Dear all,


First of all I want to say that I'm very glad to have found this site. It is a good feeling to be among Armenian people and sharing thoughts and conversations with each other. To share the feeling of being proud of whom you are and where you came from.

My name is Armine and I’m living in the Netherlands.

My father is Armenian and my mother is Dutch. My brother and I were born in Istanbul (Ni?anta??). After 5 years my mother and father moved back to the Netherlands
My father comes from a real wealthy family. My father was born in Istanbul as well and his mothers’ side of the family comes originally from Constantinople (Istanbul). The grandfather of my fathers mother Kirkor Camgocian (born in 1895 we still have pictures of him) owned a heather factory working 400 men for him. He always went together with his employees to work by tram/bus. He always said they make my factory what is today I need to treat them with the same kind of respect. He never went to the factory by car and driver.

The mother of my fathers father Agavni Kemencian (we have still pictures from 1900) and the rest of his father’s side of the family come originally from the Van area. They moved from there to Constantinople (Istanbul).

Since I was a little girl I was very fascinated and interested in the stories my father told me bout our Armenian Family and history.
When I grew up I began to read more history books about the Armenians. And I started to learn more about were we came from and who we were. I began to read more but also began to see things differently. I did research read about Abdul Hamid about the War with the Russians, the young Turks etc

When I was little my father never told me those horrible stories about the massacres but I saw in him that there was something that made him very angry. I still can see this anger.

He also told me that he heard things from his mother’s grandfather (Kirkor) because at that time (during the massacres by the Turks) he was around 20 years old. My father did not tell me everything but he told me how his family helped the orphans. They helped building up and supporting orphanage houses and they use to donate money for clothes/food and education. My father also told me ones that Antranik Pasha comes from our family and that he killed many Turks and that they were very afraid of him. Antranik Pasha comes from my Fathers mothers and here fathers side of the family. Because he was very much hated by Turks the Changed there name to Bayer. Maybe some people wont believe this but I do and that’s way I’m trying to set up a genealogy but this is very hard to do. Maybe some of you can help me with some advise how can I find out more. This weekend I’m going to my parents again and then I will ask some more about Antranik Pasha. He said his family told him this. Maybe he can tell me more about when he was born or who from the father’s side he was.

Because my family lived in Constantinople they were less at risk to be killed by the Turks. But because they were afraid to be killed they changed their surname. And that’s way my surname is now Seynur and not Kemencian.

Now days I feel that same anger towards the Turkish government and most of the Turkish people. There are of course exceptions and I have Turkish friends as well. They lie generation after generation and they believe in their own lies but that was I believe the purpose of it all.

I also feel anger for their constantly lying and defending their selves. Telling that we killed all the Turks. I wrote letters to politicians as well as to the Turkish ones that were thrown from the list here in the Netherlands. But never received any response from them. Sometimes I come across Turkish forum sites, which tell so many lies about the history and turning everything around. That I wrote whole stories (doing research as well of course), which they removed every time.

They call you names but whenever they are offended you are not aloud. They scream about freedom of speech when they think harm is done to them. Well they should have a look at their own country. I have no Turkish passport or identity card anymore because I had problems with this before (because it says on your identity card that you are a Christian/Armenian). My father as well but nobody said anything about this. Look at Hrant Dink Turkish people say Armenians did this or they say he was not killed of what he said about the Genocide. I know Turkey I know their politics I know how they are.
As when we were little we were not allowed to tell people we were Armenians. How can they say they live in peace with other religions that’s what they want you to believe but meanwhile……

I can go on and on about the discussions I had with Turkish people and that it makes me angry. Instead I try to help out Armenia by donating money and clothes and collecting clothes to give to organizations. I also went to Armenia 7 years ago. I hope to go sometime with my father.

But I cannot help it I still get angry from time to time and then I call my father and talk to him about it. That makes me feel good because I know he thinks the same way and that we understand each other on this issue. Whenever we are in Istanbul we go to the Armenian graveyard to pay respect to our family. I always go with my father ever since I was little. We use to go hand in hand and my father then drinks because of his emotions and cry’s. He has only showed his emotions to me because he said you are exactly like me we understand each other without talking. And of course I love my mom and all the other family I have as well. But this is a special bond I have with my father.

Thank you for giving me the chance to tell my story.


Regards,
Armine

Welcome aboard Armine. I'm glad you are here and thank you for the introduction. I can't wait to learn more about you and your thoughts/opinions, etc.

[imported_Armine]

Hi to all of you.

I'm new here at www.armeniangenocide.com. I'm living in the Netherlands, I was born in Istanbul but we moved to the Netherlands when I was 4 years old. My mother is Dutch and my father is Armenian.

my apoligies to the moderators I did not know there was a special thread for introducing youself. oeps now I have opened one already


Regards,
Armine

[1.5 million]

Hello and welcome Armine. What a fascinating history you have. (as do many of us of course). My family (Mothers side) is from Constantinople as well (family originally from Divrick area near Sivas) - though I am already now 3rd? generation form USA. My Great grandfather did not leave until after my great grandmother passed away in 1961/2. I second Joseph's expression of curiosity to hear more of your views and experiences both concerning your recent activities in the Netherlands and regarding your time in Istanbul and your interactions with Turks and Armenians there. I'm curious if you have met any Turks who acknowledged the genocide in any respect. I'm also curious if Turks you met in Istanbul were accusing Armenians of killing Turks or has this just been from Turks you have come accross in the Netherlands or on line.

[Jade]

Dear Armine, so good to have you here. Geographically speaking we are very close as I live in Belgium...I would like to first take the opportunity to welcome you here and I am very much looking forward to hearing your story as it does sound quite fascinating like 1.5 says. So...Welcome aboard! =)

[imported_Armine]

@1.5 Million and @ Jade Thanks for making me feel welcome. And you are absolutely right many of us have fascinating stories.

I’m 30 years old and I work for an International Software Company (we make our own software) I work as a management assistant for the Logistics department and I also do some marketing work from time to time.

Most of my father’s family stayed in Constantinople (Istanbul). But as you say the generations which came later all moved away to Canada (Montreal, the UK and Brussels). But my father still has a cousin and a nice living in Istanbul.

My father has a few Turkish friends who acknowledge the genocide and they are embarrassed by how Turkey is dealing with this situation. But those friends are mostly from Istanbul they are intellectuals and more educated. He knows them from when he was going to board school in Switzerland (Lausanne). He went to school with people who are now journalists etc. My own experiences in Turkey is that no one really spoke about Armenians we were always being called Turks as if there was no other race. When we were little we were not allowed to say t o everyone we were Armenians. Maybe that was still because of my father being afraid or knowing things from the past that he said those things as well. But when we had friends in Turkey when we were little and they knew about us being Armenian we were not allowed to play with them anymore. I can remember when I was little (I think 6 years old and my brother was 10) that we had to escape from Turkey. We were at friends in Istanbul they had a big house. I can remember the house they had animal skins on the floor and animal heads on the wall. They liked to go haunting now and then. They also had a cabinet wit haunting guns. But we were staying there for a couple of days and one day my father said we had to pack our things and leave immediately. So we did and we went to the Netherlands. We were to little to understand but when I was older my father showed me a Turkish newspaper wit names of Armenian people who were wanted for smuggling drugs. It was the front page and there was a list of names with photographs and in that list was my father as well. That morning he was called by a friend telling him he should go away from Turkey. And that there were some people who wanted to do him harm. My father could not go back to Turkey for a couple of years and in that period his father died. He could not go to his funeral or when to him when he was dying. I never use my Turkish passport or ID card anymore. I once was hold at the airport of Istanbul waiting in line for no reason. I was 16 years old and the police took me out of the line bringing me to an office. At that time my Turkish was not that good as it is now. So I was also scared. They said they would not let me go if I had no Dutch passport. I did not bring it with me, so my dad had to come from the Netherlands with my Dutch passport. I still don’t know exactly why but I heard them say the word Ermeni (Turkish for Armenian) a couple of times. In Turkey we did not openly discuss this issue only wit our best friends.

I had Turkish friends in the Netherlands who did not want to be friends anymore after they heard I was an Armenian. But I know there are Armenians that act the same way.
I did not talk much about being Armenian but when I grew older I started to speak my mind.
I had discussions with Turkish people who would say that everyone who came from Turkey was Turkish. I would always try to explain that we were born in Turkey but we are Armenians from origin. They just don’t want to understand this. I would say to them when someone asks you here in the Netherlands what you nationality is then you say I was born in the Netherlands but I’m Turkish. You don’t say I’m Dutch because you are proud of were you came from and that is with us the same. But Turkish people say that as well from the Kurdish people. There are also people who say there were never Armenians in Turkey. But it is also the government in Turkey to blame for how Turkish people are today they are very big nationalist. And it is the politics the schools and the media who makes them this way. For instance every time the Armenian Genocide is in the news they start showing Turkish war films about 1915 filled with lies. The start programs letting so called victims of Turkish Genocide speak so people are being influenced by it. We have Turkish cable television so that is how I know.

There is a politician here in the Netherlands who was thrown from the list because he did not recognize the genocide. His name is Erdinc Sacan and he lives in my street. But Turkish people got angry speaking about freedom of speech. Well I did some research on him and the newspapers also wrote he was the owner of a chat box with all sorts of nationalists who were talking about the genocide and that it did not happen. You know a lot of politicians in Turkey are watching and supporting them Turkish politicians her in the Netherlands. He is also the owner of this website: http://www.ermenisorunu.gen.tr/engli...ro/review.html. Now his name already has been removed. But it is full of lies and I don’t understand that Political parties don’t do any research on those people before they get a position like this. What can you expect from someone who comes from a little village form the middle or east of Turkey.

We also know some Kurdish people we sometimes visit them. They say how they support us but some of them helped the Turks as well. When they heard I was Armenian the girl said my grandmother is an Armenian to. That’s strange I said only 1 grandmother and why are they always women. But most of the men were already killed. My dad says that a lot the Kurdish people also suffered a lot because of the Turks. But now they support us because they have a problem with Turkey as well. And of course I know there are Kurdish and Turkish people who helped Armenians during the War.

I also met some people here in the Netherlands on a forum who say that Turks were killed and not Armenians. And if I tell my story or how I see it they start brining up Karabach and other issues. They never answer your questions or come with arguments they also tell me Christians murdered Muslims etc etc. then I always say it is in your blood look at Djenkiz Kaan and Atila the Hun they love to slaughter villages and people as well. And then they get even angrier.

I stopped doing this because it makes me angry. I think it has a lot to do with how you were brought up by your parents as well. My boyfriend is Turkish he is educated and my parents really like him because of who he is and how he threats me. But I said from the beginning I will never become a Muslim and my children won’t either. But his family well that’s a a different story
Respect is very important as well