Centuries of peace between Anatolian muslims and Christians

[Steph]

Spot on with the Coloniser/Indigenous thing, the Conquistadors were Christians and they weren't exactly best mates with us. The English who were Protestant treated Irish Catholics cruelly, as someone of both those ancestries I can tell its got noting to do with religion.
Hitler didn't set much by religion and look at what he was.

The English (& Scottish) Protestants treated the English & Scottish Catholics with pretty much the same sword as they treated the Irish... religion nothing to do with it?

[Pedro Xaramillo]

Yes and no

Under Cromwell yes it was more because of religion, but religion was only a side factor, under Henry 8th, England broke with the Catholic church to consoldate their power, as most of the landowning and aristocracy became Protestant, this was used an excuse to attack Catholics, because Celts who were workers and republicans generally came from poor Catholic families and the English Aristocracy of Protestant background, this just became a motivating factor.

I know full well how Scots were treated, but that was because of England opposition to anything related to Clann na nGael and Celts in general, there are Protestants who were also treated cruelly, in fact some of the first Fianna of the Fenian Brotherhood were Protestants.

I promise you that the average Irishman can convert to protestantism and chant Puritan songs all day, if he walks past Unionists or racist, he will be called "Paddy" all the same. The stereotypes that we are drunks, violent and terrorists are not perpetrated or perpetuated by religion but by the fact that we are indigenous and seen as inferior to the Nordic English by racists.

It had to do with a struggle between Coloniser and Indigenous.

I say that it has nothing to do that the Turks were Muslims. Christians, Jews, Hindus Athiests all have commited crimes. The problem lies with right wing extremists and fascists and racial nationalism. Fascism caused the Genocide and people like the Grey Wolves and their fascist Turanic nonsense

[Steph]

Sorry Pedro,

Mostly tosh.

You're trying hard to fit all this into your Celtic socialist parameters and it's too big.

Religion is a factor, not the only one but still an important one

[Pedro Xaramillo]

You are missing the point here

Firstly I don't know how me being a Celt has anything to do with this, I'm of Amerind ancestry too by the way just for clarification.

If you read carefully you would notice that I said religion is only a motivating factor, answer me this :

If Christianity is all good, why the Conquistadors?
If Judaism is all good, why Zionism?
If Islam is all good, why Jannissaries?
If Hinduism is all good, why was Ghandi assasinated?
If Atheism is all good, why Pol Pot, Stalin and Hitler?

Religion is not what motivated the Genocide, Fascism is, if you tell me that is tosh lad, then you really must open a history book.

Also please note not just Celts are Socialist and take a class struggle view of the situation, Stepan Zorian, Christapor Mikaelian, Simon Zavarian Avetis Nazarbekian, Mariam Vardanian, Gevorg Gharadjian, Ruben Khan-Azat, Christopher Ohanian, Gabriel Kafian and Manuel Manuelian and later Armen Ohanian were all Socialists and most certainly not Celts.

Lets just say for one second all the world had no or one religion, class struggle will continue, the indigenous will stay oppressed, Opression is root of inequality, unless you are telling me African slavery was fun

[Steph]

Firstly I don't know how me being a Celt has anything to do with this, I'm of Amerind ancestry too by the way just for clarification.

I mentioned Celt simply because you insist on quoting Celts & Catholics.

If being a Celt, or any other background, has nothing to do with this...THEN WHY BLOODY MENTION IT?????

[Steph]

If you read carefully you would notice that I said religion is only a motivating factor, answer me this :

If Christianity is all good, why the Conquistadors?
If Judaism is all good, why Zionism?
If Islam is all good, why Jannissaries?
If Hinduism is all good, why was Ghandi assasinated?
If Atheism is all good, why Pol Pot, Stalin and Hitler?

Religion is not all good, if you've read any of my posts you'll notice that I have never been an apologist for religion. So I don't really see the point of your bringing that question to the table.

Conquistadors.... Bad. Just rotten to the core.
Zionism.............Mmmmm,....not sure, originally a wish to return to a lost
homeland, can that be understood here?
Jannissaries.......Evil concept.
Ghandi..............Good
Pol Pot..............Bad
Stalin................Bad, didn't he begin training for the priesthood?
Hitler.................Bad, but I thought he was Catholic.

[Steph]

Religion is not what motivated the Genocide, Fascism is, if you tell me that is tosh lad, then you really must open a history book.

Can you please explain to me Fascism ?

(Q.) Was Hitler a fascist ?

(A.) No. He was a National Socialist. Mussolini was a fascist.

If you open a history book lad, maybe you can dispel your high-school socialist tosh and learn about the real world.

I was a card holding CP member and have seen what joy unbridled socialism can bring.

[Steph]

Also please note not just Celts are Socialist and take a class struggle view of the situation, Stepan Zorian, Christapor Mikaelian, Simon Zavarian Avetis Nazarbekian, Mariam Vardanian, Gevorg Gharadjian, Ruben Khan-Azat, Christopher Ohanian, Gabriel Kafian and Manuel Manuelian and later Armen Ohanian were all Socialists and most certainly not Celts.

Whaaaat?

From that list one could suppose that all Armenians are socialists.

The class struggle view. Ah yes, the view that people struggle succeeding in their History Major.

[Steph]

Lets just say for one second all the world had no or one religion, class struggle will continue, the indigenous will stay oppressed, Opression is root of inequality, unless you are telling me African slavery was fun

What????

Now we're talking about African slavery?

Are we looking at the European involvement ? The period prior to Europeans, when rival tribes took and sold slaves. The involvement of Arabs & Berbers in the slave trade or the current situation in 2008.

[Pedro Xaramillo]

Okay first up

I really see no reason for you to be rude, I have never been rude to you, so there is no reason to use argumentum ad hominem. Now then in return I'll be a little more rude :

If you can read (which is very helpful I believe) peruse down to CRDA France's post, he was talking about coloniser vs indigenous, which is indeed the case in genocide, unless your telling me that the Turks weren't coloniers

Okay, now if Hitler was Socialist explain this to me :

1 Why did he arrest and kill trade unionists
2. Why did he arrest and kill communists
3. Why did he ally with the business ruling class instead of the workers
4. Where was his sense of internationalism
5. Why no council of soviets and workers.
6. Why no nationalisation of property.
7. Why no profit sharing by workers.

Maybe you should actually read the Communist Manifesto.
Yes I am a Communist, yes I claim Celtic Socialist leaders like Connelly
and Pearce.

However the way you earlier said Celtic Socialist, slightly bordered on
derogatory, by interesting question do you then hate the Sinn Fein
movement.

We mentioned African slavery as it is an analogy Go READ up on many Ancient Greek manuscript, they had alot of analogies for things.

I named them as this once again proves coloniser and indigenous.
Unless you tell me black people loved being enslaved and had a riotously good time.

Now why are we talking about religion : If you READ, check the title of the
thread "Centuries of peace between Anatolian muslims and Christians", do you understand now why we are, also you said and I quote :

Religion is a factor, not the only one but still an important one

And as CRDA, there were many Muslims Arabs fighting alongside Greeks and Armenians for indepence, want to maybe read up on Syrian, Iraqi and Lebanese history.

I never said all Armenians are Socialists, I merely named Armenian Socialists who's works I read, sorry if it bothers you that I admire your culture and indeed read your literature.

So, lets get to perusing better in future mate.