Hey Everyone

[Edoman]

Saco Jan, one of the biggest problems we have as Armenians is that we are not unified. This is mostly due to effects of Diaspora. This is challenge that we must overcome first before we can be effective in changing our future for better. A strong leader is the KEY here and I know that we as Armenians will eventually unify around the globe, but I also see the next generation (your generation and your son’s) to be more successful in this. The example that you provided in regards to this Turk accepting the Genocide but never the less was getting attacked by the Armenian posters is exactly what we must NOT due. These Armenians are playing straight into the Turkish hands. We must embrace the Turkish people (as much as we would hate doing that). It is reverse psychology that will stun the Turkish public, the last thing they would expect and would turn their world upside down. This does not deny Genocide or make it OK or even forgive the crimes but will send shock ways around the world.
You said “Just like a few bad Turks throw off the good ones in our eyes, a few Armenians, could throw all of us off in the eyes of the good people, and not only Turks, around the world. Some are annoyed even.” Absolutely right Saco.
We must understand that our options are limited, we are in no position to economically or militarily to be of any major effect. However we are much smarter than Turks, we need to use our brain power to turn things around and get out of this hole they put us into. Yes, not only we need a bold new strategy but we also need to start thinking differently and consider our greater good rather than our selfish hate. We must think strategically (you said that, I am impressed) and use their false racist ideologies against them in a covert manner. We need to control our hate and remember that not all Turks are the same, like you said. We also must remember that we cannot rely on any other country to help us, we don’t need/want hand outs, we are proud people who only require respect, but we should strongly lobby for Armenia in these countries who are being blackmailed by the Turkish government in regards to Armenian genocide. Let’s beat them at their own games. We must look for opportunities and take them. There are many other things we can do but I will not go there now. Victory will be ours as long as we plan this right; executed by the numbers and by priority; staying focused on our mission, and not allowing our feelings to get in the way.
BTW, in regards to escape goat comment I should have been clearer. I was referring to those organizations that I asked you to look up and how the Turkish Government uses them to carry out their Ottoman style executions and cleansing but has them labeled as criminals in order to legitimize themselves. They hold mock trials and usually condemn a low ranking officer for the crime (then released within a few months when things quite down) or even a high ranking retired General but all he ends up getting is a slap on hand.
Saco Jan please bear in mind that these are my opinions, not necessarily true. Do not let people influence you. Due your own research and draw your own conclusions. Don’t forget to have some fun jeegar; you are only 18 for Christ sake.

[Sako]

Saco Jan, one of the biggest problems we have as Armenians is that we are not unified. This is mostly due to effects of Diaspora.

Edoman, unity isn’t decided by how far or near you are from each other. That also matters but that's not and shouldn't be the only cause. Armenians (Me too) like to lone-wolf it a lot.

This is challenge that we must overcome first before we can be effective in changing our future for better. A strong leader is the KEY here and I know that we as Armenians will eventually unify around the globe, but I also see the next generation (your generation and your son’s) to be more successful in this.

If we keep going the way we are, that day may never come but I think if we do unite and not only use our brains but our hearts, everything will be much better then it has been lately.

The example that you provided in regards to this Turk accepting the Genocide but never the less was getting attacked by the Armenian posters is exactly what we must NOT due.

Try telling them that, they might turn you into the enemy . I think the people who go with OUR approach need a place to unite. Not everyone, though. We see what happens after that.

These Armenians are playing straight into the Turkish hands. We must embrace the Turkish people (as much as we would hate doing that).

Edoman, why should or would we have to hate it. The people who agree with the Genocide aren’t “bad” and neither are those who don’t. I don't personally hate the thought of that. Sure, it would feel strange but only for a few seconds. There’s a thing called free will but those who try to prove us wrong will have to put up a good fight. We have to know who our friends are but who our enemies are much better.

It is reverse psychology that will stun the Turkish public, the last thing they would expect and would turn their world upside down. This does not deny Genocide or make it OK or even forgive the crimes but will send shock ways around the world.

Five words: People will trust us then!

We must understand that our options are limited, we are in no position to economically or militarily to be of any major effect. However we are much smarter than Turks, we need to use our brain power to turn things around and get out of this hole they put us into.

When we talk about quantity or the military, let us not forget that quality is more important then quantity. Let’s not degrade ourselves either. It’s bad being degraded by other countries but its even worse being degraded by ourselves.

Yes, not only we need a bold new strategy but we also need to start thinking differently and consider our greater good rather than our selfish hate. We must think strategically (you said that, I am impressed) and use their false racist ideologies against them in a covert manner.

Racist was the word for it, awesome description, Edoman, that is effective in both sides of the field. Many Armenians go with the rushing method. It never works. I like to compare what we do to a man in quicksand. The harder you struggle, the deeper you go. That’s the best way to put it. Think twice, act once.

We need to control our hate and remember that not all Turks are the same, like you said.

Easier said then done, for many.

We also must remember that we cannot rely on any other country to help us, we don’t need/want hand outs, we are proud people who only require respect, but we should strongly lobby for Armenia in these countries who are being blackmailed by the Turkish government in regards to Armenian genocide. Let’s beat them at their own games. We must look for opportunities and take them. There are many other things we can do but I will not go there now. Victory will be ours as long as we plan this right; executed by the numbers and by priority; staying focused on our mission, and not allowing our feelings to get in the way.

Great words right there couldn’t have put it better. Considering feelings, I think everything is allowed but when your feelings rule you, and not the other way around, you make a lot of mistakes and more harm. One thing people forget is that THEY are the country, not the government. Let me write a short story my dad used to tell me. It’s one of the best. Once there were two kings that were showing off their armies. Also, these kings were sort of like rivals but not enemies. The King with a massive army, much bigger then the other’s, showed them off by making them march from one end of the kingdom to the other as if to offer a helping hand as you said. The other King smiled and after seeing the arrogant look on his rivals face, ordered his men to march straight for a cliff. The rival couldn’t believe what he was seeing. The soldiers were marching straight for the cliff without thinking twice, drumming and playing trumpets all the way, falling row by row. The rival bowed his head and never returned. This story has many morals one of them being that when united, anything can be done. The other is that loyalty is very important but when you know who your leader is. Those soldiers knew how great their king was. I don’t know how much what I said had in relation with our conversation but I think people in general have a lot to learn from it.

BTW, in regards to escape goat comment I should have been clearer. I was referring to those organizations that I asked you to look up and how the Turkish Government uses them to carry out their Ottoman style executions and cleansing but has them labeled as criminals in order to legitimize themselves. They hold mock trials and usually condemn a low ranking officer for the crime (then released within a few months when things quite down) or even a high ranking retired General but all he ends up getting is a slap on hand.

Sounds really familiar, haha. I wasn’t expecting anything less.

Saco Jan please bear in mind that these are my opinions, not necessarily true. Do not let people influence you. Due your own research and draw your own conclusions. Don’t forget to have some fun jeegar; you are only 18 for Christ sake.

Hahaha, don’t worry Edoman Jan, I have my fun. Yeah, I’m serious and all but I think I left the impression that I’m forty years old . What you said may be your opinions but I completely agree with them. I have a question, though. When you said “There are many other things we can do but I will not go there now.” What did you mean?

Oh, and before I go, I want to talk about something but I think I’ll post another thread. I’d love to know your opinion.

[Edoman]

Saco, you nailed what I was trying to bring across. You keep your friends close and your enemies closer.
BTW, when I said Unity I did not mean we all move to Armenia. We must unite on our cause and become organized with a clear understanding of our objectives operating around the globe. Armenians should also understand that embracing the Turkish people does not mean we are going to adopt a Turkish family in our home. It would be a political stand with cultural exchanges of students, teachers, scholars and “such” if you can read between the lines. Put the ball in their court and see how they fumble.
And just to add on my comment in regards to our military abilities it goes without saying that history has proven that once Armenians decide to fight they have countless times won battles while out numbered and out gunned fighting in dire conditions against all odds with such determination and bravery that is legendary. “Death or Liberty” our red banner puts the fear of God in the enemies who knows who we are. The ratio in fights with Turks has been 1 hungry, tired, almost out of bullets Hai equals to 2 ½ well fed, slept like a baby last night, my ammo box is too heavy to carry Turks on the battlefield, but the way things are right now there is no military or insurgency solution to our problem.
Let’s not forget Turkey has the #2 standing military in NATO with state of the art US weapons and Fighter/Bomber Jets, Israeli upgraded targeting system on their Tanks, and the backing of other NATO members with satellite surveillance. To make matters worst they always target civilians on purpose. However, Turkey is extremely unstable socially. That is the soft spot we should concentrate on.
So you wanna know what else I think we should do? OK, here is a few more. We need to implement a course in our educational system and mainstream Universities that concentrates specifically on this “cause” and further reinforces our culture and the way forward. We need more Armenians in key positions of authority around the world with discipline. We need to make a peaceful stand for freedom and justice in the eyes of the world. We can implement a classified Doctrine (a road map) to Ancient Armenia? We can consider support of certain groups who share our concerns… there are many more.

Astvats head it Saco Jan.

[No Pasaran]

Hi everyone,

I thought this thread is the best one for introduce myself.

My name is Umutcan and I was born in Izmir/Turkey 16th may 1990. I`m coming from a reformist family. I grow up in Turkey i went to public school after high school now i am an exchange student in United States and I think i can say' i know Turkey conditions more than you.' I have never hate somebody cause of his nation. I always wished for Turkish people and Armenian people to understand each other.

I was holding a poster 'we are all Armenians' we are all Hrant Dink' when some people who are the enemies of all humans gave a gun to hands of seventeen year old stupid kid. We were making demonstrations in every where which we could. we were trying to tell us our people that 'our government is guilty', we have to do something for tell people to history what happened in 1915. Lot of people didn`t listen us or didn`t belive us or thought that we are betrayers in some where they attacked us.

Actually it wasn`t their fault. After military take over in 1980 government used brainwashing methods on youth. But they couldn't succeed at all. Still i am thinking my friends thinking we are trying open other people's minds in Turkey. That's only thing which we can do, that's the only think which we believe way to peace.

Turkish nationalists didn't kill Hrant cause he is an Armenian or he is an Armenian nationalist and probably if he was they didn't have any reason to kill him. They killed him because he was fighting for Turkish-Armenian Brotherhood. They killed him because they believed same thing which we think 'He could change this things, he could make Turkish people to understand Armenians, he could tell our people how we made Armenian Genocide, he could change people's minds.' And he were doing. That's real reason some people wanted him death. But they will never succeed we will never be quiet we will never let same things happen.

People in Turkey they are changing. 93 years passed but still we need time. We can't change things with our anger and hatred.

writing in english kind of difficult for me. I have a lot of things to say. i will and my writing now.

Nice to meet you

[Sako]

BTW, when I said Unity I did not mean we all move to Armenia. We must unite on our cause and become organized with a clear understanding of our objectives operating around the globe. Armenians should also understand that embracing the Turkish people does not mean we are going to adopt a Turkish family in our home. It would be a political stand with cultural exchanges of students, teachers, scholars and “such” if you can read between the lines. Put the ball in their court and see how they fumble.

Bro, I think there is a way we can do this, believe it or not. I’ve been working on it almost all night and after No Parsaran posted, I think it has a great chance of working.

There is no military or insurgency solution to our problem.

I guess your right. But if Turkey even thinks once of coming to “Get Us” they’ll be surprised. We’re not sheep herders alone and a great reason why Turkey isn’t thinking of attacking probably is because of how many countries would be pissed. And also having bad relations with us is a no-no in everyone’s books, not just their book, for countless reasons. I also smell the roses though and see that they’re strong and not just out of curiosity. You’re right, we need a new approach.

So you wanna know what else I think we should do? OK, here is a few more. We need to implement a course in our educational system and mainstream Universities that concentrates specifically on this “cause” and further reinforces our culture and the way forward.

I doubt many students would really agree with the teachers or institutions. Let’s not forget how dangerous Armenians think nowadays sometimes. These kinds of teachings must begin in first-second grade. And Parents also have a lot to do with what we hold in our hands nowadays. Many parents, not that I blame them, hate the Turks and basically I think we need to change our attitude, looking in a totally different direction. Plus, we need a place to unite, both Armenians and Turks.

We need more Armenians in key positions of authority around the world with discipline.

The nail you’re hitting is going straight down the way you want it.

We need to make a peaceful stand for freedom and justice in the eyes of the world. We can implement a classified Doctrine (a road map) to Ancient Armenia? We can consider support of certain groups who share our concerns… there are many more.

Still, priority number ONE. LEARN TO TALK TO TURK’S. Just talk for God sakes. If we can’t talk right now properly, how can we even HOPE to do anything else? This is where I make my stand, until now.

Astvats head it Saco Jan.

Mercy Edoman Jan. Astvats el ko het, boloris het. Bayts amena karevoru, togh menk astsu het linenk, Inku mishtel mer heta.

Hi everyone.

Hi No Pasaran. Welcome to the forums and glad if my thread turned out to be of any help.

My name is Umutcan and I was born in Izmir/Turkey 16th may 1990. I`m coming from a reformist family. I grow up in Turkey i went to public school after high school now i am an exchange student in United States and I think i can say' i know Turkey conditions more than you.' I have never hate somebody cause of his nation. I always wished for Turkish people and Armenian people to understand each other.

That’s a great cause and a great wish. And we were born in the same year, if you noticed. Pleasure to meet you and not only because you believe the Genocide happened.

I was holding a poster 'we are all Armenians' we are all Hrant Dink' when some people who are the enemies of all humans gave a gun to hands of seventeen year old stupid kid.

The worst part is they thought they were right, until now. Hrant Dink was a great man, although I regret that I didn’t know much about him till his death. I must say though that people like him will never die. All the best to him and his family.

We were making demonstrations in every where which we could. we were trying to tell us our people that 'our government is guilty', we have to do something for tell people to history what happened in 1915. Lot of people didn’t listen us or didn’t believe us or thought that we are betrayers in some where they attacked us.

Now you know what we go through. You aren’t even Armenian and you feel bad when people don’t believe you. WE ARE the children of the same Armenians that were killed in the Genocide, and many people don’t believe us.

Actually it wasn`t their fault. After military take over in 1980 government used brainwashing methods on youth. But they couldn't succeed at all. Still i am thinking my friends thinking we are trying open other people's minds in Turkey. That's only thing which we can do, that's the only think which we believe way to peace.

You’ve done and are still doing much more then many people out there, even me in many cases. I’m proud to know you exist. It’s people like you that give hope to thousands of not only Armenian’s but people out there that there is still something worth living for. That this world isn’t completely bad or brainwashed. It’s people like you that make this world a better place. Thank you for everything and don’t let anyone break what you believe in. If they can believe the Genocide never happened, you can equally believe it happened.

Turkish nationalists didn't kill Hrant cause he is an Armenian or he is an Armenian nationalist and probably if he was they didn't have any reason to kill him. They killed him because he was fighting for Turkish-Armenian Brotherhood. They killed him because they believed same thing which we think 'He could change this things, he could make Turkish people to understand Armenians, he could tell our people how we made Armenian Genocide, he could change people's minds.' And he were doing.

The Turkish government doesn’t realize that some things can’t be “extinguished” with guns. They’ll figure that out soon enough … or maybe have already.

That's real reason some people wanted him death. But they will never succeed we will never be quiet we will never let same things happen.

No one will. This isn’t the dark ages anymore. All this has turned into a mutual conflict. It’s not even about the Genocide anymore in many cases. It’s become a racist war. Our futures can’t be set in a world filled with racism. Period.

People in Turkey they are changing. 93 years passed but still we need time. We can't change things with our anger and hatred.

You’re smarter then many Armenians, believe it or not.

writing in english kind of difficult for me. I have a lot of things to say. i will and my writing now.

Pasaran, there are people out there that know perfect English but write rubbish, top to bottom. No one understands them. You wrote something with bad English but it was immediately understood from the very start. Welcome to the forum again and I’m not afraid to say and I’m SURE I talk in the name of everyone on the forum, feel like you are at home. We aren’t your enemies, and you aren’t our enemies. We have more in common then many people and countries think. Today, we just took one big step forward, let’s all give ourselves a pat on the back.

Edoman Jan, this is what I think we were striving for these few days and I think we both deserve a pat on our backs. This is the kind of conversations that we need to have more often. And I think this is what truly will change much more in the future if not our futures completely. It’s good to know you all exist. Thanks for not giving up. I think now we are starting to become a tree rather then minor branches on the side walk, which are easily broken. THIS, our conversations and our hopes will never break.