Calling all Turks

[Sako]

Guys, I realized there are many Turks in the forum and many support the Genocide but don't show their faces. I think it's time we become closer as a community rather then as individuals. So, all the Turks on the forum (I know this sounds funny) let's post here and get into the light. There isn't a better way to talk then to come together and the forum is pretty silent lately so come on in.

[ardakilic]

First response shall come from me

Yes, i am Turkish and of course educated in school and society that there is not an event to be called genocide. But when i read and search further due to the fact that my family is so political, realized that terrible crimes are commited in the history and wanted to do something. I have begun to discuss this with my firends, tried to make people aware of etc...

Not only the horrible Armenian Genocide, but also Greek Genocide, Assyrian Genocide, Dersim Genocide and Kurdish Massacres are the parts of "Dark Era" of modern Turkish history, 1908-1950 and so on (i donot mean that after 1950 nothing happened, but in the era i mentioned, the 'darkness' is extremely dense).

[Joseph]

First response shall come from me

Yes, i am Turkish and of course educated in school and society that there is not an event to be called genocide. But when i read and search further due to the fact that my family is so political, realized that terrible crimes are commited in the history and wanted to do something. I have begun to discuss this with my firends, tried to make people aware of etc...

Not only the horrible Armenian Genocide, but also Greek Genocide, Assyrian Genocide, Dersim Genocide and Kurdish Massacres are the parts of "Dark Era" of modern Turkish history, 1908-1950 and so on (i donot mean that after 1950 nothing happened, but in the era i mentioned, the 'darkness' is extremely dense).

I wish more of your countrymen felt like you. Your words, if multiplied in Turkey would bring peace to the mind of Armenians, most of whom do not want revenge, land, etc but only recognition and acknowledgement of all that was taken from them and what was lost. Your words if multiplied would drown out the voices of those who want only retribution.

[Jos]

Hello everyone,

I’m a Turk that has been raised and educated outside of Turkey. I have not had any formal history schooling relating to the Ottoman empire, however based on my own limited research and readings, I’m convinced that a genocide did take place and formal recognition of this should be accepted in Turkey. I also think it’s time we acknowledged the heavy handed and sometimes abominable treatment of our minorities that lived and continue to live with us. I understand my compatriots concerns about political games played by some in relation to the issue i.e. hypocrisy of some countries such as the US (and the insidious genocide on their own American Indians … Congress should recognize that first), shameful duplicity of some like France, the glossed over atrocities of some elements of Hunchaks and Dashnaks during that time and the questionable motives of radical elements in the Armenian diaspora. Irrespective of all that, there is no getting around the fact that thousands of innocent Armenian women and children needlessly died at the hands of our forefathers.

[Sako]

Great to meet you all. Me, Pedro, and Edoman are working on the new site xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx.com. It will be something new and much more interactive then most sites, I'm making sure of that. I don't know when it will come out but sometime next year probably. It would be an honor to have you all on the site and even here as we speak and not just because your Turks and I want to stand up with an Armenian banner and become smug or something. We simply have to get together as people rather then as individuals otehrwise we will all fail in time. It's great to be talking to you all and good luck in everything you do. I also very much agree with Joseph's paragraph, it's very true and that is precisely why I'm trying to do anything right now.

[Joseph]

Hello everyone,

I’m a Turk that has been raised and educated outside of Turkey. I have not had any formal history schooling relating to the Ottoman empire, however based on my own limited research and readings, I’m convinced that a genocide did take place and formal recognition of this should be accepted in Turkey. I also think it’s time we acknowledged the heavy handed and sometimes abominable treatment of our minorities that lived and continue to live with us. I understand my compatriots concerns about political games played by some in relation to the issue i.e. hypocrisy of some countries such as the US (and the insidious genocide on their own American Indians … Congress should recognize that first), shameful duplicity of some like France, the glossed over atrocities of some elements of Hunchaks and Dashnaks during that time and the questionable motives of radical elements in the Armenian diaspora. Irrespective of all that, there is no getting around the fact that thousands of innocent Armenian women and children needlessly died at the hands of our forefathers.

Your sentiments are appreciated Jos.

[Sako]

No Parsaran, where are you???

[Edoman]

Hello everyone,

I’m a Turk that has been raised and educated outside of Turkey. I have not had any formal history schooling relating to the Ottoman empire, however based on my own limited research and readings, I’m convinced that a genocide did take place and formal recognition of this should be accepted in Turkey. I also think it’s time we acknowledged the heavy handed and sometimes abominable treatment of our minorities that lived and continue to live with us. I understand my compatriots concerns about political games played by some in relation to the issue i.e. hypocrisy of some countries such as the US (and the insidious genocide on their own American Indians … Congress should recognize that first), shameful duplicity of some like France, the glossed over atrocities of some elements of Hunchaks and Dashnaks during that time and the questionable motives of radical elements in the Armenian diaspora. Irrespective of all that, there is no getting around the fact that thousands of innocent Armenian women and children needlessly died at the hands of our forefathers.

Jos, you must understand that there is a fine line between a freedom fighter and a terrorist. Our Dashnaks came about due to the atrocities of your government; we are in fact your creation. Some of us who stepped over the line were so affected by horrors we experienced that it would be impossible as a mortal not to loose it eventually. That was at a very small scale, much smaller than you are led to believe. It is vicious cycle of Genocide; Revenge killings on innocent instead military targets which leads to more brutality which leads again to more revenge killings.
My grandfather was 14 when they gave him a rifle taller than him and was told to protect his people. He ended up escorting Armenian families from Urmie to Bagdad with Turks in pursuit. At one river crossing at night he and other men forced many to cross the river while others too tired to continue stayed for the morning. The sounds of cries of those people who did not cross the next morning getting butchered hunted him until he passed away. Many died on the 3 month journey but far worst happened to the ones who did not leave in time. His older brother stayed and joined other Fedayees protecting the civilians from the mountains and was never heard of again.
Also your so called radical elements of Diaspora; again, it is fueled by your Governments denial of their crimes which is like pouring salt on a wound that cannot heal.
You have to understand what our banner stands for. It literally translates to “liberty or death.” Despite many, we know the meaning of those words far too well. Without our Fedayees many of us would not be here today; I would not be here today.

Thanks for posting

BTW guys, Turkey has intensifies banning of websites and access to internet to a point that Turks are demonstrating.

[Sako]

Very true, kudos. If I ever make a movie, that part you just described will definitely be in there, Edoman, thanks for sharing. Jos, you have to agree, it's simple to understand.

[Joseph]

Jos, you must understand that there is a fine line between a freedom fighter and a terrorist. Our Dashnaks came about due to the atrocities of your government; we are in fact your creation. Some of us who stepped over the line were so affected by horrors we experienced that it would be impossible as a mortal not to loose it eventually. That was at a very small scale, much smaller than you are led to believe. It is vicious cycle of Genocide; Revenge killings on innocent instead military targets which leads to more brutality which leads again to more revenge killings.
My grandfather was 14 when they gave him a rifle taller than him and was told to protect his people. He ended up escorting Armenian families from Urmie to Bagdad with Turks in pursuit. At one river crossing at night he and other men forced many to cross the river while others too tired to continue stayed for the morning. The sounds of cries of those people who did not cross the next morning getting butchered hunted him until he passed away. Many died on the 3 month journey but far worst happened to the ones who did not leave in time. His older brother stayed and joined other Fedayees protecting the civilians from the mountains and was never heard of again.
Also your so called radical elements of Diaspora; again, it is fueled by your Governments denial of their crimes which is like pouring salt on a wound that cannot heal.
You have to understand what our banner stands for. It literally translates to “liberty or death.” Despite many, we know the meaning of those words far too well. Without our Fedayees many of us would not be here today; I would not be here today.

Thanks for posting

BTW guys, Turkey has intensifies banning of websites and access to internet to a point that Turks are demonstrating.

I want to state again that I appreciate Jos's sentiments.


The Dashnaks and Hunchaks were formed mostly to protect Armenians from Kurdish, Laz, and Circassian marauders who plundered and murdered them at will during the reign of Abdul Hamid II; as Edoman has alluded to, they formed because the Ottoman government refused to protect Armenians and in many cases actually assisted their tormentors.

These organizations probably would have never arisen had there been a more benevolent sultan. It should also be noted that the Dashnaks helped the Young Turk regime take power and even joined the movement. There were Dashnaks in the parliament until they were killed and exiled on the eve of the Genocide; they were betrayed long before the WWI began. Although they promised a new day, the Yong Turks continued Abdul Hamids policies vis-a-vis the Christian subjects.

I think what often gets overlooked by Turkey/Turks is the following:

- the role of Dashnaks and Hunchaks in Armenian life at that point is overspeculated; the majority of Armenians were not members of or had any affinity for political organizations, which is one of the reason so many were killed without a fight.

- Though they were several thousand fedayee fighting against Turkish forces during WWI, the majority of Armenian who donned uniforms were Russian subjects and were from Armenian provinces then in the Russian Empire. They were drafted just like there Armenian counterparts in Turkey but were instead not disarmed and killed. Russian-Armenian troops were mostly sent to the Austro-Hunagarian front by the Russian High Command.

- The Dashnaks and Hunchaks did indeed committ atrocities albeit at a much smaller and infrequent scale that any moral equivalency to the Turkish atrocities against the Christian subjects is absurd and just a strawman arguement.

- There are many instances were small pockets of Armenians and Assyrians with no political affiliation fought back and it is convenient for Turkey to label them Dashnaks or Hunchaks.