What should Turkey be proud of?

[Pedro Xaramillo]

Re: What should Turkey be proud of?

No attitude towards you. I do and will react when I see something wierd, which I have seen in many of your posts. The strange thing is that you dont seem to realise what you are "actually" saying sometimes because you have a very self-righteous tone and attempt to educate the ignorant Turk when you have a chance. I know you will deny doing that but I know that many others on this forum can see this.

"What should Turkey be proud of?" is a question in itself which while it could be the naive question you intend it to be with the intention of learning, it also says something about how you compare yourself to a Turk.

Is there anything Turkey should be proud of? Well there are millions of things we are proud of just like anybody else is proud of their country and people. If you want to know what we are proud of just read some elementary level Turkish history and culture, but better still come to Turkey, spend some money and see for yourself.

And from your posts bro, all I can see is someone with a definite attitude problem and an ego to match, the purpose of this thread, if you actually tried to read was for Turks to tell us all about the great things in their culture, we had many Turks on the AG forum who are friends with (May, Ardakilic, No Pasaran, etc.) who know full well no one here hates Turks nor looks down on them as an ethnic group

How has Saco once, or anyone from the AG forum ever tried to "educate the ignorant Turk", your nationalist fellow came here trying to discredit Armenians as a people, becoming insulting and claiming Armenians have no culture, are you really that naive to think that Turkey is so important to Armenians that they always try to get on up on the Turks, most diasporans and Armenians alike want to get one with their lives, they are people just like you and me, maybe it would help if alot of people in Turkey realized this because you don't seem to see Armenians as equals, wake up bro, they are not your Millet anymore

[Sako]

Re: What should Turkey be proud of?

No attitude towards you. I do and will react when I see something wierd, which I have seen in many of your posts.

I'd love to know what you read that was so weird, I mean, really.

The strange thing is that you dont seem to realise what you are "actually" saying sometimes because you have a very self-righteous tone and attempt to educate the ignorant Turk when you have a chance. I know you will deny doing that but I know that many others on this forum can see this.

Talk for your little self Hitite. I don't know what the hell is wrong with you but you better change your attitude. "Educate the ignorant Turk"? What the xxxx is wrong with you? You see all my posts as degrading Turkey and the Turkish people no matter what or how I write them. The funny thing is you really think I give a hoot what you think. I've tried talking to you so many times but your ugly ego won't let you understand. Not my problem. If you knew why I asked this question you'd close your mouth with duck tape.

"What should Turkey be proud of?" is a question in itself which while it could be the naive question you intend it to be with the intention of learning, it also says something about how you compare yourself to a Turk.

It's your naive ass that won't let you see the true intent of my question. No wonder you can't talk to Armenians. I said countless times why I asked this question. Open your goddamn eyes and stop trying to figure out what I'm saying and just read it all as it is.

Is there anything Turkey should be proud of? Well there are millions of things we are proud of just like anybody else is proud of their country and people. If you want to know what we are proud of just read some elementary level Turkish history and culture.

Hahaha .. you ser... this guy is serious . I can't believe it. Read elementary level Turkish history? Sorry brother, I don't want to be brainwashed. You forget how much of your history is just lies. The Genocide is a good example. How many war heroes are there in your books that "conquered" in 1915? Your books state that the Armenians killed so many Turks. Who were the heroes that defeated the evil little Armenians, lol? That's just an interesting question I thought I'd ask. And if there are MILLIONS of things Turkey should be proud of, why don't you tell them to the Turks who don't give a xxxx if they even exist or not, they might believe you. And don't forget to tell me, I asked the question, lol. There are people from your own country that don't know much about Turkey so how will Armenian know, little man? I asked the question and you gave me crap. Think about that my naive friend.

Hell, Turks even say Sayat Nova was an Armenian, lol, so please, save me the BS. I wanted to learn something myself and try to hear more then one opinion because I'm afraid to even open one Turkish book. I've seen what they've done to all the others. You might have even learned something from this thread but your naive ass just couldn't handle that could it?

You speak without thinking. You seem to find something wrong in every post, too bad no one cares. I did once, when I didn't realize who I was wasting my time on.

But better still come to Turkey, spend some money and see for yourself.

Oh I'd love to, maybe when your country begins to at least act like a free nation. And I can very easily say, why don't YOU come to Armenia and get a better look at who Armenians are instead of accusing them all. When Turkey stops killing my past, my people, and the ones trying to make a righteous difference today, THAT'S when I'll come to your country. Till then? Enjoy the forums and get your head on straight. I have more important things to do then find silly ways of making fun of Turkey.

[Hye_Psycho]

Re: What should Turkey be proud of?

I do and will react when I see something wierd, .

i hope you dont mind me asking
but why is your user-name hitite?
i hope those elementary level Turkish history books are not trying to forge a link between the magnificent ancient Hittite civilization, with the turkic Invasions of the 11th-14th centuries?

[hitite]

Re: What should Turkey be proud of?

Hitite, since the first day I talked to you, you’ve had a rotten attitude for some strange reason, you look at anything I say as offensive, and you’ve got some nerve suddenly popping in and calling my thread an attempt to diminish the Turkish image. And what is “another opportunity” supposed to mean? Get your head straight my friend and don’t expect me to try and explain anything. It’s different with you. What anyone says doesn’t matter to you and what you just said doesn’t show anything besides how much you’re searching for an opportunity to say that Armenians keep searching for ways to make us look bad. Get a life. And what I said was true. Turks brought in people to help educate Turks in general and … you read the rest of the history if you even care.

No attitude towards you. I do and will react when I see something wierd, which I have seen in many of your posts. The strange thing is that you dont seem to realise what you are "actually" saying sometimes because you have a very self-righteous tone and attempt to educate the ignorant Turk when you have a chance. I know you will deny doing that but I know that many others on this forum can see this.

"What should Turkey be proud of?" is a question in itself which while it could be the naive question you intend it to be with the intention of learning, it also says something about how you compare yourself to a Turk.

Is there anything Turkey should be proud of? Well there are millions of things we are proud of just like anybody else is proud of their country and people. If you want to know what we are proud of just read some elementary level Turkish history and culture, but better still come to Turkey, spend some money and see for yourself.

[Sako]

Re: What should Turkey be proud of?

Hey Saco. This "wannahear" dude said it was "bait" and you still went and bit... tsk tsk.

I asked people to respond and it’s my duty to reply Hitite, too bad some people don’t understand that … tsk tsk.

Just read what he wrote and what you wrote back... you took the bait and turned it into a pissing contest...

It’s actually Wannhear that took the bait and replied, not the other way around. And it’s not like I have an evil plan here. I just wanted us to talk about a serious topic without mixing politics and all. I even learned a few things along the way.

You have been yearning for a Turk to write what they are proud of and when someone writes it you reply with .. no no Armenians contributed, Turks couldnt do it themselves, they had to hire people to educate their dumb asses. So were you asking this question to give yourself another opportunity to look down upon them useless to themselves Turks?

Hitite, since the first day I talked to you, you’ve had a rotten attitude for some strange reason, you look at anything I say as offensive, and you’ve got some nerve suddenly popping in and calling my thread an attempt to diminish the Turkish image. And what is “another opportunity” supposed to mean? Get your head straight my friend and don’t expect me to try and explain anything. It’s different with you. What anyone says doesn’t matter to you and what you just said doesn’t show anything besides how much you’re searching for an opportunity to say that Armenians keep searching for ways to make us look bad. Get a life. And what I said was true. Turks brought in people to help educate Turks in general and … you read the rest of the history if you even care.

The reasons I started this thread is not one but two. 1, to understand what “Turkish Pride” is supposed to mean (what there is to be proud of, not that I’m saying there is nothing to be proud of) and 2, to really get to know Turkey a bit better and know not only the bad side of Turkey but the good side as well. There is good everywhere and many don’t know about that (this thread proves that). I wanted to unveil some facts and learn something myself as a person. By now Hitite, you should already know what type of a person you are talking to. You left the forums for awhile but it seems like nothings changed whatsoever. No one is trying to make fun of Turkey. If I wanted to, don’t worry, my vocabulary is frightening at times. But that is simply wrong. I wouldn’t feel good being teased and don’t tease others either for that reason. If that’s too much info to digest for your thick skull, find some other Armenian guy to try and piss off, I don’t have time for you.

As a Turk living in Turkey I can assure you that the "average" Turks does not give a crap about Armenia (unless its a football match) and the almighty Armenia really does not piss Turks off. No offence but thats how it is.

Maybe doesn’t give a crap but knows about Armenia. Wannhear insists that no one knows anything about us. Lol, that’s the funniest joke I’ve ever heard. He needs to wipe his windshields a bit.

Okay first up, what is your intention on this forum, you come here in your opening post attacking the diaspora, but going on about how you are not mean, you do realize its against forum rules to deny the Genocide and insult Armenians as an ethnic group, if you continue on this track I would warn you that you will be slapped very hard with a restriction from using this website.

Pedro, bro, come on, you think he doesn’t know that? I don’t have time to waste arguing especially with someone who comes in sniggering under his shoulder. Wrong intentions, wrong forum, wrong person to try and play with.

you accuse Armenians of having no culture, yet you claim we here at the forum are attacking you.

I still can’t believe he used the word “Attack”, lol.

I don't know where you claim that diasporan Armenians are obsessed with the Genocide and know nothing of their culture besides that, many diasporan Armenians speak fluent Hayeren and are fiercely proud of their heritage, do you really think Armenians just talk about the Genocide all day, do you know how much Armenians music, food, folklore (read Sassountsi Davit), dances are there that are unique to Armenia, do you think each of these are Genocide inspired?

Yep, that’s what he thinks. He thinks we sit around all day and find ways to attack Turks. Ay.

No one says all Turks rape and murder, there have been many Turks here who have become our friends (May, Arda, No Pasaran, Lal, etc.), this isn't an attack on Turkic people, but a duty to do what is right by our conscience, no one wants Turkey destoryed (so relax lol), just for them to realize their past

That’s kinda hard to understand it seems. Let’s start talking at a more intermediate level. Armenians …. Friends …. Not Devils. In the next lesson, we’ll talk about sharing, and all the other fun activities .

[Pedro Xaramillo]

Re: What should Turkey be proud of?

Okay first up, what is your intention on this forum, you come here in your opening post attacking the diaspora, but going on about how you are not mean, you do realize its against forum rules to deny the Genocide and insult Armenians as an ethnic group, if you continue on this track I would warn you that you will be slapped very hard with a restriction from using this website.

Now as to Saladin, like Saco said its unrelated, but Saladin or Yūsuf Ṣalāḥ ad-Dīn ibn Ayyūb was born in Tikrit, Iraq. His family was of Kurdish background and ancestry,and had originated from the city of Dvin, in Medieval Armenia. His father, Najm ad-Dīn Ayyūb, was banished from Tikrit and moved with his family to Mosul, where he met Imād ad-Din Zengi, the Turkish atabeg of Mosul and the founder of the Zengid dynasty, who was leading Muslim forces against the Crusaders in Edessa.

Therefore you can clearly see it was not his uncle, he did not even meet the man till adult life, what YOU are trying to do is deny the accomplishments of Armenians, Arabs, Kurds, Iranians, Indians, etc by claiming Turks did it all, you accuse Armenians of having no culture, yet you claim we here at the forum are attacking you.

Did you know why Saco made this thread, its because he wants friendly relations between Turks and Armenians, but in order for that to happen,
Turks and Armenians need to learn about each other and Turks need to
accept that they weren't exactly saints during 1915.

I don't know where you claim that diasporan Armenians are obsessed with the Genocide and know nothing of their culture besides that, many diasporan Armenians speak fluent Hayeren and are fiercely proud of their heritage, do you really think Armenians just talk about the Genocide all day, do you know how much Armenians music, food, folklore (read Sassountsi Davit), dances are there that are unique to Armenia, do you think each of these are Genocide inspired?

Lets be honest, you came to this thread with bad intentions, also if Turkey doesn't care about Armenians Genocide, how come those 200 Apologizers were attacked and imprisoned for "Insulting Turkishness under 301", without being rude if Armenia matters little, don't pressure them and tell your friends to stop trying to take back Artsakh (and its Artsakh, get that, not Nagorno Karabagh, its never been Nagorno Karabagh, the Armenians, the indigenous people of the region who number the majority call it by that name so that Turkic/Azeri is false).

No one says all Turks rape and murder, there have been many Turks here who have become our friends (May, Arda, No Pasaran, Lal, etc.), this isn't an attack on Turkic people, but a duty to do what is right by our conscience, no one wants Turkey destoryed (so relax lol), just for them to realize their past

[hitite]

Re: What should Turkey be proud of?

Hey Saco. This "wannahear" dude said it was "bait" and you still went and bit... tsk tsk. Just read what he wrote and what you wrote back... you took the bait and turned it into a pissing contest...

You have been yearning for a Turk to write what they are proud of and when someone writes it you reply with .. no no Armenians contributed, Turks couldnt do it themselves, they had to hire people to educate their dumb asses. So were you asking this question to give yourself another opportunity to look down upon them useless to themselves Turks?

Too bad it’s going to happen anyways. Armenia is small but can easily stand next to any country and for more reasons then you can imagine, like it or not. That’s what pisses Turks off. They know what’s going on, don’t worry, and so do you.

As a Turk living in Turkey I can assure you that the "average" Turks does not give a crap about Armenia (unless its a football match) and the almighty Armenia really does not piss Turks off. No offence but thats how it is.

[Sako]

Re: What should Turkey be proud of?

haha im not wrong. you asked for a 'friendly reply' and I answered.

And that doesn’t necessarily make you right.

Now you are attacking over that request.

Attacking? What am I attacking? Did I “attack” you? Well I guess to Turks, getting a reply from an Armenian is an Attack ALREADY, lol.

Pfft, thats why I called it 'masturbation'.

I kinda call your view stupidity and especially brainlessness to top it off, for flavoring. Pfft, pitiful. Don’t start a fight and then blame it on us, I don’t “wannahear” it. You’re starting a fight you can’t win.

Turkish history starts with the son of Noah. And it is as old as Chinese history, since we know from Chinese sources, Turks were there when Chinese started to write annuals.

Your "800-years-old" history for Turks is, in fact, just the Turkish history of 'Anatolia', which is a small part of Turkic history.

Also, according to you, everyone successful are Armenians. I just said "some houses" and your answer was "They were all Armenians"... hahaha that is too funny because you do not even know which families I were talking about.

Did I say “ALL HOUSES”? Maybe you need glasses. And wait for it, he’ll probably say Noah’s ark landed on some mountain in Turkey as well, lol. Turkey as a nation wasn’t much. They simply had troops but lacked knowledge in most major fields. They brought in people from different countries and began to rule. Hard to believe? Not really, simply hard to digest. Again, I’m not saying Turkey is a pitiful nation, what the wrong people did is pitiful and unforgivable.

As for crusaders, Saladin was a Kurd but his uncle, Zengi was a Turk. Zengi is the first and the founder ruler of the army of Saladin.

And your point is? Saladin still wasn’t a Turk. That’s not the question here though.

What’s more, I’m sorry but you are so rude, Turks do not support murdering or raping against Armenians. It is just Armenia is a SMALL country, it has no significant effect on daily life in Turkey. And Armenian Diaspora's effect on Turkey is just the genocide stuff.

Because of your country. It has taught you the complete alteration of history. The greatest fairy tale I have ever read. Kudos to them, they did a good job. And I’m not rude (I don’t even know where you got that idea), the truth simply is too much for you it seems. Enough of the silly “they are mean” stance you’re taking. No one here offended you. And although they may not support rape and everything else (I didn’t say everyone does), the modern genocide still continues. What you support is not what matters, what you do is what matters. You don’t know what your people do and I don’t blame you. I blame the ones that taught you lie after lie all day. Those are the ones that need to be blamed and they will be, soon enough.

And Armenia has had no effect on Turkey because of Turkey’s politics. They (the gov.) don’t want anyone to have contact with each other so their lies don’t get stuffed in their mouths. Too bad it’s going to happen anyways. Armenia is small but can easily stand next to any country and for more reasons then you can imagine, like it or not. That’s what pisses Turks off. They know what’s going on, don’t worry, and so do you.

Nothing more. Because Daspora and Armenia Armenians have no communications with Anatolian Turks. You all think that the genocide or Armenia or Diaspora's acts are a very important problem for Turkey and Turks but, I am sorry to say that, %90 of the population does not even now who you are.

They will soon, don’t worry. And that’s BS, they don’t know MUCH but know who we are. Your Turkish pals make sure of that. If they didn’t know they wouldn’t be spitting crap in the forums all over the World Wide Web.

And one more. Genocide issue is a definited characteristic of Armenian community. Genocide means hope, means more lands, means money for you. Genocide is the only thing that makes Diaspora feel like an Armenian. C'mon, half of the Diaspora -maybe more- cannot even talk Armenian language. And more of them cannot write nor read it. Just a few of them saw Armenia.

I agree, and I go against many Armenians that look at all Turks equally. There are so many good people, some of which are my friends, and that nationalistic, fanatic view that many Armenians have are not good at all. You think I like everything about my past and country? True love for your country is not nationalism, it’s something much deeper that many mix with nationalism.

The Genocide my friend is our past and our hope, definitely. If we forget about it, we lose our identity. You killed our entire nation almost. Forgetting what happened means forgetting who we were and are. It is not just something that we can let go of and especially don’t because of the money. That’s not the main reason. You’re view is materialistic alone.

Your only 'strong' common point today is: genocide. Deny or not.

Pfft, I could prove your petty remark wrong with my eyes closed. I’m not even going to waste my time explaining. If you’re so dull as to not search and educate yourself, I’m not going to spoon feed you.

One more thing, %95 percent of Ottoman mosques were built as mosques; including all 'great' mosques of Istanbul except Hagiasophia.

Funny you say that. I wonder why when we pull up the carpets of so many mosques we see Armenian churches. This is what happens when a person taught to ridicule a nation says and thinks in a forum boys and girls.

Thanks for listening.

We’re always ready to listen, hope you are as well. No one here is your enemy …….. Don’t make it that way.

[Sako]

Re: What should Turkey be proud of?

hmmhmm hello.

Hi!

The truth is, an avarage Turk does not even know which is the capital of Armenia or whom is the president of it. Sad? Maybe, but true. Also, for Turkey, the genocide issue is a problem that comes into mind when Armenian lobbies annually try to make U.S. Congress to take a decision about it.

Simply because your nation has tried to make everyone forget, including YOU, lobbying herself as well, and more then Armenia. Sad? Maybe, but true.

For Armenians, of course it is very important. A cultural identity. But for Turks, they have larger problems, no body -as an avarage citizen- cares about the Armenian issue in Turkey in their daily life, thats what I saw.

First of all like Pedro said, it’s not a cultural identity. Second, well if no one in Turkey cares that their forefathers murdered 1.5 million innocent people then maybe we need to start talking with Turks at a more intermediate level. Explaining how “bad” it is to murder, rape, and burn. Oh, Bad, bad, bad.

As Turkic: They are proud of their several ancient states in Central Asia. Those were nomadic tribes which were dominating CA. Also they are proud of dominating China in those years.

As hard as it may be to read the following lines, remember that Turks at first were more or less outcasts with a large amount of men behind them. They formed a small nation (only 800 something years ago) and then invited scholars, professors, citizens, etc. from other nations to help educate their own citizens and live and prosper together. Then they began to rule. So please, even if you don’t know about 4000 years of Armenian History, please at least read your own history. Turkey decided to wipe out the civilization that was truly prospering, that was small but very talented, and now they are simply upset they couldn’t finish the job. I am not saying Turkey is a worthless nation but trying to diminish the image of the nations that helped it become what it is, is wrong, selfish, and out of reach. It ain’t gonna happen. Turkey took our help and chopped off the heads of people that belonged to not only Armenia but many other nations as well. Turkey is doing the SAME s**t today. That’s enough for today’s history report.

To continue, many historical houses of some states were Turkic. Like India, Egypt, Persia etc for some periods of history.

Many of them were Armenian …

That is mixed. Countless but however, firsts come to mind are most of the first 450 years of Ottomans. And some of the rest.

Victories and wars against Crusaders. Many mosques, bridges among the past-Ottoman lands. Conquered lands of Ottomans and Seljuks.

Istanbul, also War of Independence.

Turks always see themselves as the true 'Muslims' so they do not like Arabs that much. It is not hate, but definitely not love.

Hmm.. Also I think they are proud of the army.

And some scientists, actors, singers, writers.. it is so many, remember, we are talking about 75 millions of people and nearly 10 mil abroad. hmm hmm to name a few lets say i remember tarkan, orhan pamuk, fatih something a director i think, sabiha gokcen, baris manco, kahveci nihat, kamal sunal, cuneyt arkin haha

You used the word “COUNTLESS”. Could you please open up the brackets a bit and give me some more of those countless facts?

Thanks for your contribution, most of it was pretty … broad, in the sense that we still have to research to understand what you’re really talking about. Some of it was solid, interesting to know about, but I’d like to know some more serious facts if there are any (I’m sure there are).

ive been in turkey for years hmmhmm. they are not bloody devils.

Did we ever imply that they were evil devils … Or do the Turks simply think we all think of them as Bloody Devils, there’s a difference? It helps them close up their wounds. When a person is wrong, everyone is his/her enemy. Remember that fact in the long run and you might understand what’s going on in Turkey.

[Pedro Xaramillo]

Re: What should Turkey be proud of?

Dude, I dunno how you can claim that the Genocide for Armenians is a cultural identity, Armenians have had a huge cultural identity for many years looooong before the Genocide (see Urartians, Nairi, Hurrians, Hittite, Bagratunis, First Christian Nation, Mashtots Mesrop, etc.), Armenians are naturally hurt by what happened and want recognition, if millions of your people died, you would nto want to be called a liar, because some fascist state does not agree with you.

The most victories against crusaders was by Saladin (A Kurd) not a Turk, in addition many of those mosques were former Greek, Armenian and Assyrian churches converted to mosques, also alot of the the Ottoman architechts were Armenian and Greek (Sinan for instance).

I'm not saying Turks have nothing great, quite the reverse, there is a rich amount of literature, music, historical areas, etc. But don't downplay the Armenian role, Armenians contributed alot to Ottoman civilization, take for instance cymbals, the cymbals used by the Ottomans Army to frighten their enemy was made by an Armenian (Avedis Zildjian) in 1623, who was indeed the first great cymbal maker (also the founder of the Zildjian cymbal company)

No one here hates Turks as a people on the AG forum to my knowledge, this is simply an area to post about what happened to Armenians in 1915 as that is what is morally right to do, there was a Genocide, accept it because it can be proven everytime and Turkey still doesn't have anything remotely logical to add in reply (such as the so called Hocali/Khojalu Genocide)