What should Turkey be proud of?

[seruven]

Re: What should Turkey be proud of?

@Saco,
I thought that this thread was adressing to Armenians and you were aiming Armenians to look at Turks objectively. Had we written what we could be proud of, the thread would have been perceived as a propoganda tool and wouldn't have been read.
Although your intentions are good, it seems that this thread hasn't been embraced by the forum community.

[Palavra]

Re: What should Turkey be proud of?

Think again. Saying there isn't any jealousy is like saying humans don't breath air.

I am sure that there are jealousy but absolutely not for armenians and personally, I do not see any reason to become jealous of armenians. (I should add I have no reason to be proud of turkey too. That is why I do not answer your question.)

Let's just say you need to keep your eyes more open ...

I know my country better. It A turk say, There is armenian genocide, People at least, will ignore or care to listen him. If a french parliment say it, People will just become angry.. You cannot force it over Turks.

You seriously need to open your eyes. Don't say TURKS won't trust, say I Won't Trust because so many have and more are starting to.

I do not trust, because I am an opportunist and see all people and nations as opportunist

But Turks dont trust. All major factions at Turkey(islamist,nationalist turks, kemalist and nationalist kurds.) hate outsider. It is funny, all of these factions accuse EU or USA time to time.

The only reason the AG issue is even questioned today is because of the Armenian Diaspora that has tirelessly faught to get the AG recognized.

No, reason is Turkey innerconflict and AKP. Diaspora have no effect. Diaspora just make it worse.

do you think your Turkish gov. doesn't want Turks to have contact with the outside world? Read up a bit more. And don't think I don't have any contact with Turks. What do you think keeps me in contact with them?

Turkish goverment? You have least nationalist and most liberal(except ozal) goverment in Turkey.

And we won't give up until that castle is a pile of rubble.

If you attack castle, People just built it or protect it. People should leave castle with own wish. To bad, noone will leave castle If They believe that there are enemies outside of castle.

[Sako]

Re: What should Turkey be proud of?

I do not think any turk has that jealousy.

Think again. Saying there isn't any jealousy is like saying humans don't breath air.

Anyway,do you realy think that your ag campaing help Turkey democratization? You are as helpful as PKK.

Let's just say you need to keep your eyes more open ...

Turks will not trust outside of Turkey.

You seriously need to open your eyes. Don't say TURKS won't trust, say I Won't Trust because so many have and more are starting to. The only reason the AG issue is even questioned today is because of the Armenian Diaspora that has tirelessly faught to get the AG recognized. Turks would still be living in lies if they didn't start trusting different sources around the world. Trust is what has moved us forward. Why do you think your Turkish gov. doesn't want Turks to have contact with the outside world? Read up a bit more. And don't think I don't have any contact with Turks. What do you think keeps me in contact with them?

Do you realy think, castle mentality can be destroyed so easily? ottomans destruction is still alive at the mind of people.

And we won't give up until that castle is a pile of rubble. Turks are also people and they deserve to live in a free world and judge what they see, hear, and feel for themselves. The Turkish Government has gone too far and no lie can live forever, especially one this big.

[Palavra]

Re: What should Turkey be proud of?

I seem to start to feel what Turks must feel when they read about our small nations achievements. The jealousy they must go through.

I do not think any turk has that jealousy.

And only the outside world can help Turks see what's going on. Turkey itself is a trap. They don't allow any talk of the AG to take place. We have to take up a new strategy and learn to use our anger/pain in the right way. Hate never got ANYONE anywhere.

Anyway,do you realy think that your ag campaing help Turkey democratization? You are as helpful as PKK.

I should also add, Instead of helping Turkey democratization, You should interest with ROA one.

Turks will not trust outside of Turkey. Do you realy think, castle mentality can be destroyed so easily? ottomans destruction is still alive at the mind of people.

[Sako]

Re: What should Turkey be proud of?

I agree, the whole reason the Turkey govt is doing so well with denial of the genocide is because thus far it has been able to use Turkish nationalism and hate speech to undermine genocide recognition. This is not helped when Armenians use equally strong nationalism and hate speech because it only helps Turkish nationalists retain power, as if Armenia can be shown as hostile and dangerous to Turkey then they can convince Turkeys people to believe as such.

EXACTLY my point. What Turks say to the freshman Turks just starting to hear about the Genocide is that we hate them. How do they prove it? By showing them all the messages you find on the internet. Their argument is that we aren't civilised. They don't say why though. So, we have to come up with a new plan, something that hasn't been tried before. Of course, that has nothing to do with this thread. I just wanted to learn about the Turks a bit more FROM TURKS on this site in a good way of course, not with sly intentions or anything. I was just interested. When they didn't say much I thought the Armenians could help out a bit. Please don't misunderstand my motive Yeraz. Believe me, we all have gone through a lot of crap and I still am today, it's not just you. Don't be in such a hurry to strike. Your worst enemy is within you and the Turks know about him sadly.

What really has to happen is for everyday Turks to start to see Turkish nationalists denying the genocide as the enemy, because that's what they are. After all if imprisoning people for their views on the Armenian Genocide isn't against freedom of speech and democracy then I don't know what is.

And only the outside world can help Turks see what's going on. Turkey itself is a trap. They don't allow any talk of the AG to take place. We have to take up a new strategy and learn to use our anger/pain in the right way. Hate never got ANYONE anywhere.

So in the end Turks have to be turned round to see what they are actually doing to their country, which right now is a very bad thing, because in the end lying about your history and national identity in the end hurts you the most.

Couldn't have said it better. This is Turkey's weakness.

[hipeter924]

Re: What should Turkey be proud of?

If I were you, I wouldn't be so quick in judging people and their actions . Everything has boundaries bro, hate included. We can't let the Turks manipulate that hate or anger which they have for a longggg time. I'll explain why I did all this to you soon, don't worry. Then you'll understand why I did all this a bit better. Sorry if it angers you or anything.

I agree, the whole reason the Turkey govt is doing so well with denial of the genocide is because thus far it has been able to use Turkish nationalism and hate speech to undermine genocide recognition. This is not helped when Armenians use equally strong nationalism and hate speech because it only helps Turkish nationalists retain power, as if Armenia can be shown as hostile and dangerous to Turkey then they can convince Turkeys people to believe as such.

What really has to happen is for everyday Turks to start to see Turkish nationalists denying the genocide as the enemy, because that's what they are. After all if imprisoning people for their views on the Armenian Genocide isn't against freedom of speech and democracy then I don't know what is.

Not only that it has wider implications, if Turkey govt does not begin to respect is minorities such as Armenians, then it can only get worse for not just Armenians but Kurds and others in Turkey.

So in the end Turks have to be turned round to see what they are actually doing to their country, which right now is a very bad thing, because in the end lying about your history and national identity in the end hurts you the most.

[Sako]

Re: What should Turkey be proud of?

Saco, if the few Turks on this forum will not comment on this thread then how can you expect Armenians to speak on their behalf?

I don't. I wanted Turks to do that, the ones worth listening to, the ones that aren't full of xxxx. Then I thought Armenians could maybe help me get a better idea of Turkey and it's past. There are Turks out there that know more about Armenia then many Armenians do so I wanted to know about Turkey.

I say the men in drag dancing is the best so far.

I have no objection but I thought we might know more about the Turks since we go against them so much.

Saco, I used to like you, but this thread is over the top.

Yeraz, the only reason I said MAJOR NATION, if that's what your talking about, is because it really is a major nation in terms of size. We're talking about the Ottoman Empire here, let's not underestimate our enemy. Many people have talked about Armenian achievments but it seems many don't know about Turkish acheivments. Politics aside. I've heard that a lot that Turkey has was stolen from different nations and it surprised me. Was EVERYTHING really stolen? Doesn't Turkey have something to be proud of? People make fun of Armenia so I wanted to know what Turkey has done. Regarding your dilemma, I said in the beginning that this question isn't being asked in a political manner and I don't want political answers.

What you are asking for is for Armenians to explain how much they hate themselves.

NO Yeraz, I'm asking us to acknowledge, to know our enemy. Not all Turks are our enemies bro. I have Turkish friends I would take a bullet for. They have done more for the recognition of the AG then many Armenians out there so let's not throw everyone under the enemy category. Let's save the hate for the people who deserve it.

This is an exercise in futility and self-hate.

Copletely out of context.

What purpose does it serve to compliment our enemy except to reduce our own confidence and national esteem?

Let's just say there is a reason for everything. I'm not as stupid as you'd love me to be. Think what you will. If this conversation hurts you in some way, you don't have to read it anymore. I am not complimenting my enemy. So far, the enemy doesn't seem to have much to be complimented for. I haven't read a post that might actually make a person, especially a Turk, feel proud of his/her nation. I seem to start to feel what Turks must feel when they read about our small nations achievements. The jealousy they must go through. I wanted to know about their achievements so I might understand our enemy a little better ... the REAL enemies. All Turks are not our enemies. If you disagree, your hate it seems has no boundaries and that my friend ... is very dangerous.

If I were you, I would assess my own twisted worldview before asking Armenians to compliment our enemy...

If I were you, I wouldn't be so quick in judging people and their actions . Everything has boundaries bro, hate included. We can't let the Turks manipulate that hate or anger which they have for a longggg time. I'll explain why I did all this to you soon, don't worry. Then you'll understand why I did all this a bit better. Sorry if it angers you or anything.

Moving on ...

[yerazhishda]

Re: What should Turkey be proud of?

This really saddens me. Come on guys, I'm talking about a major nation. What should it be proud of? All I got was a celebrity, a dress, and ponies. I think we need to start hitting the books, including me. We've been so busy hating each other that we don't realise how little we know about each other. I think it's time we started talking and throwing out the people that don't let us do so peacefully.

Saco, I used to like you, but this thread is over the top.

What you are asking for is for Armenians to explain how much they hate themselves. This is an exercise in futility and self-hate. What purpose does it serve to compliment our enemy except to reduce our own confidence and national esteem? If I were you, I would assess my own twisted worldview before asking Armenians to compliment our enemy...

[crusader1492]

Re: What should Turkey be proud of?

Saco, if the few Turks on this forum will not comment on this thread then how can you expect Armenians to speak on their behalf?
I say the men in drag dancing is the best so far.

Here's something to look at for insight.

State sponsored tourism commercials (i.e. this is what the state is proud of):

Turkey
Azerbaijan

vs.

Armenia 1
Armenia 2

To me te Turkish commercials are just fluff pieces. Moreover, if they are showing any culturral riches, it is monuments that pre-date Turkish influence.

Armenia's commercials, on the other-hand show substance and cultural ownership.

I must say though, the flying Dervishes and mermaids in the Turkey commercial was outstanding

[gmd]

Re: What should Turkey be proud of?

Saco, if the few Turks on this forum will not comment on this thread then how can you expect Armenians to speak on their behalf?
I say the men in drag dancing is the best so far.