What should Turkey be proud of?

[Sako]

Re: What should Turkey be proud of?

You spoke my mind. The interesting part is that even after all that's happened, we're still standing straight. A nation rose from the ashes again. I'm proud of my country and I respect all other nations as well. Who I loathe is the people that make them look bad. THEY are the ones I hate ... the ones we should be fighting against.

[Pedro Xaramillo]

Re: What should Turkey be proud of?

True on that bro, also remember that most Soviet countries suffered severe poverty after the dissolution of the CCCP. Also Hayastan is under blockade from Turkey, Azerbaijan and Georiga, so supplies are not there often, if the country was not so ruthlessly oppressed, I expecet Hayastan would be lightyears better than it is now

[Sako]

Re: What should Turkey be proud of?

This development has mostly all occured in the past 30 years. Things such as roads, services, transportation links, shops, agricultural irrigation, livestock, etc. are decades ahead of Armenia.

This is mostly because of the Kharabagh war. We lost a lot and remember, Armenia is a free country for only about 18 years.

[bell-the-cat]

Re: What should Turkey be proud of?

Why is it that the majority of Anatolia still resembles a third world country? Hasn't the "Modern Republic of Turkey" been in existence for 86 years now? Germany was almost completely destroyed after WWII, and it rose from the ashes in 30 years to be one of the most modern countries in the world. It even had to absorb East Germany just 15 years ago. Israel was a wasteland until the xxxs took it over in 1948, and now look at it, even despite the fact that it is surrounded entirely by enemies. I mean, Armenia has been independent for less than 20 years and is there any difference between the rural parts of Armenia and most of Anatolia, and is Yerevan that far behind the main cities of Turkey? What is it that is holding Turkey back for so many years?

The rural parts of Turkey are far wealthier and far more economically and infrastructurally developed than the equivalent parts of Armenia. This development has mostly all occured in the past 30 years. Things such as roads, services, transportation links, shops, agricultural irrigation, livestock, etc. are decades ahead of Armenia.

Yerevan is recognisably a European city, it has everything one would expect of such a city (with the exception of democracy). Istanbul and Ankara and Turkey's other cities are not - and have mostly stopped even pretending to be. They are middle-eastern cities with a hint of Asian megacities. The only thing holding back Turkey (in the sense of Turks getting what they want out of life) is its severe overpopulation thanks to Islam and nationalism. Whether what Turks want out of life is what they should be wanting out of life is another matter (and is connected to why Yereven, for all its problems, is European and why Istanbul, for all its size and wealth, is not).

[Sako]

Re: What should Turkey be proud of?

I do not say, Turkey have nothing to proud. I just say, I am not proud because I am Turk. I may become armenian or greek, If My family was greek or armenian so why should I be proud?

I don't know, maybe because you are from that country in this lifetime? Why shouldn't you be proud? For example, that's like saying, why should I be proud of my football team (or whatever other sport you like). If they win a championship, won't you feel proud? If your brother/sister does something great, won't you feel proud?

yeah. They are doing a lot. So what did they gain until now?

They made the world look at this issue. Your country tried and still tries to make it look away. She needs to find another hobby. The Diaspora, Palavra, has gotten a lot done but I guess in your book, success is getting the AG issue cleared and failure is not being able to.

When Turkey is sending soldiers to Lebanon, armenians protested against Turkey. Also armenians supported PKK. In reality, Both had no relation with genocide.

Well, let's see what your proud country did. When an earthquake took place in Turkey (I think), the Armenians wanted to help, why didn't Turkey allow us to do so? In reality, it had nothing to do with the Genocide.

My point is Palavra that this ALL because of the Armenian Genocide. When you lose everything, the people you love, the people you cared about, etc. GOD FORBID, then you'll understand why all this is because of the AG.

I do not think, both side will gain. I do not think main problem between ROA and Turkey is genocide. It is karabag and border dispute between Turkey and ROA. (And maybe Turkey dislike pro-russian armenian.)

That has very little to do with anything. Yes, that issue is clear in our minds but the AG is at the core of everything. EVERYTHING. Azerbaijan is Turkey's brother you can say and we didn't give them what they wanted. For that reason, they're pissed. They don't realise which nation they're messing with unfortunately. In the end though, that is just a reason to not accept the AG, nothing more. It was the Azeri's that entered Armenia and began the war, not the other way around, and they got what they asked for. I feel sad for them though of course, both sides lost a lot of brave soldiers. This issue is a seperate issue though.

By the way, what do you think Turkey will gain? Infact, Turkey is gaining much to resist against AG. Armenians are wasting their limited resources over AG and a poor armenia is better for Turkey.

Your country wastes great resources EVERYDAY trying to hide the fact that the AG happened, who are you trying to kid? We lost our entire culture, we lost everything Palavra, doesn't that blow a few horns in your head? Why do you think we continue to fight, to not give up? And Armenia isn't as poor as you like to think. Yes, it's not a Turkey that stole all our resources but it's still standing straight. That's what pisses your country off. That's not our problem. We may not have the AG recognized yet but without effort it never will be. You lower the importance of the AG. Kharabagh was a war, 1915 was Genocide.

Yep. You have no means to harm Turkish nationalism. You just make it more powerful..

Yep, that's just what we want. We want Turks in general to get an overdose of nationalism, get SO MUCH of it so that they'll get completely pissed and understand what their gov. has been doing to them. Instead of trying to make everyone's efforts look futile, try to understand them and what their doing.

Time's are changing and so are the people and the way they think. Nothing lasts forever and neither will the old pathetic mentality of your gov. The clocks ticking.

[Palavra]

Re: What should Turkey be proud of?

Actually on the Armenian Genocide documentaries I have seen they have commented on the fact that the same people denying the Armenian Genocide are also the ones against democracy in Turkey since the main group denying the Genocide are Turkish Islamic Nationalists.

Hehe. This includes all turks. MHP, AKP and CHP. All of them are Turkish islamic nationalists..

Maybe you don’t know enough about it? Did you know that one of the Wonders of the world is in Turkey? That’s something that could make you smile a bit. Most think that Armenians want to diminish the face of Turkey but that’s completely out of focus. What I personally want is for Turks to be living in their country, starting to bring everything together, and facing the past. Once they do, we’ll all be able to move on. I respect Turkey, just not the people that ruin it. The AG issue makes Turkey look like a turkey. I don’t want to diminish Turkey; I want us to help ourselves and each other to get out of this crap hole.

I do not say, Turkey have nothing to proud. I just say, I am not proud because I am Turk. I may become armenian or greek, If My family was greek or armenian so why should I be proud?

Perhaps, but the Diaspora did a lot and is still doing a lot. You have to be blind to say that’s not true.

yeah. They are doing a lot. So what did they gain until now? They are like bees who dont produce honey.

Could you give some clear examples, not that I don’t believe you or anything?

When Turkey is sending soldiers to Lebanon, armenians protested against Turkey. Also armenians supported PKK. In reality, Both had no relation with genocide.

Then you must simply love to see the AG recognized because both sides will gain. Turkey will lose something (not land) but all the losses it will have won’t/can’t stand next to all it will gain

I do not think, both side will gain. I do not think main problem between ROA and Turkey is genocide. It is karabag and border dispute between Turkey and ROA. (And maybe Turkey dislike pro-russian armenian.)

By the way, what do you think Turkey will gain? Infact, Turkey is gaining much to resist against AG. Armenians are wasting their limited resources over AG and a poor armenia is better for Turkey.

Provide me with another way then. Your gov. doesn’t leave us with any other choices. What are you proposing? That we sit around and watch?

Yep. You have no means to harm Turkish nationalism. You just make it more powerful..

[Sako]

Re: What should Turkey be proud of?

Bro!

The fact that I used the word bro? And I thought Sherlock Holmes was the detective, lol.

[TomServo]

Re: What should Turkey be proud of?

And your interesting point is???

Bro!

[Sako]

Re: What should Turkey be proud of?

"Bro" count: 6

And your interesting point is???

I agree with what you say Seruven but trust me, for a small city like Yerevan, you'd be surprised by what you could find. Our only problem is that some Armenian's don't get along with each other so our country lacks the little support from it's own people which, if we get (and we are, slowly) can bring Armenia back on her feet very quickly. Regardless, even after a war, Armenia still rose out of the ashes AGAIN, she's keeping it cool, and she always will.

[seruven]

Re: What should Turkey be proud of?

Why is it that the majority of Anatolia still resembles a third world country? Hasn't the "Modern Republic of Turkey" been in existence for 86 years now? Germany was almost completely destroyed after WWII, and it rose from the ashes in 30 years to be one of the most modern countries in the world. It even had to absorb East Germany just 15 years ago. Israel was a wasteland until the xxxs took it over in 1948, and now look at it, even despite the fact that it is surrounded entirely by enemies. I mean, Armenia has been independent for less than 20 years and is there any difference between the rural parts of Armenia and most of Anatolia, and is Yerevan that far behind the main cities of Turkey? What is it that is holding Turkey back for so many years?

I think comparing Germany and Turkey is like comparing apples and oranges. Before WWII, Germans were a modern, industrialized, secular and urban society. However, what Ottomans left to Turkey was a rural, illeterate, agricultural population without the notion of nationality. The success of Turkey is the transformation of its society. Urbanization and industrialization is a harsh process and not something to look down.
I don't know much about Armenia, so it's hard to compare Turkey and her. But, at least I'm sure that Yerevan and Istanbul can not be compared. Istanbul has a tremendous population, vast amounts of production facilities, many universities, a vivid cultural life, huge amounts of tourist inflows, and it hosts 34 billionaries (it ranks fourth in the world after Moscow, NYC and London).
For the rest of the country, I'm not happy, either. I don't think the governments governed the country well. Besides, we had many problems in the 20th century: PKK, Cyprus, routine of coups, etc.
These are my opinions. Maybe you should try to find some answers to the questions you arose, phantom?