Baby Steps

[Sako]

Hi again everyone.

On many occasions, I have heard different people say/ask "What progress have Turk's made?" or "What progress do we see?". Some don't know naturally while many on the other hand underestimate anything being done today. This thread is basically a progress report meant to throw a light on all the steps being taken today to make a difference by Turkey/Turks. To move a mountain, we must start moving small stones. To take big steps forward, we must first take baby steps. If we do not appreciate them, we will never appreciate the bold steps and frankly speaking, ignoring any progress at this time I feel is a sin. We all want the same thing, to revive our nation, to revive our spirits, our hopes, and most importantly our history which is trying to be hidden and destroyed. To get what we want, to finally find some peace of mind, we will need to take bold steps but appreciate even the smallest if we want anything to change. Allow us to take this time to appreciate what is being or has been done and without any sarcasm, politics, racism, or nationalism involved.

__________________________________________________ _______________

1. At Hrant Dink's funeral, tens of thousands of Turks flooded the streets of Istanbul, shouting out "We are all Armenians" and "We are all Hrant Dink".

2. A Turk gave away his family land as Genocide reparation.

3. Almost 30,000 Turks have signed a petition apologizing to all the Armenians around the world.

4. Many Turks have become very friendly with many Armenians and show their support in many, many ways.

5. A football game took place in Armenia between Turkey and Armenia. (It’s not much but definitely is some little step forward. Before, even that wasn’t possible)

Feel free to add to the list and only appropriate material please.

[Haykakan]

Re: Baby Steps

Saco you are right these are positive things but the problem is they are pebbles of the mountain that needs to be moved. I think most armenians are now too impatient and we don't want to wait another 100 years for justice.

[Pazooki]

Re: Baby Steps

Hi again everyone.

On many occasions, I have heard different people say/ask "What progress have Turk's made?" or "What progress do we see?". Some don't know naturally while many on the other hand underestimate anything being done today. This thread is basically a progress report meant to throw a light on all the steps being taken today to make a difference by Turkey/Turks. To move a mountain, we must start moving small stones. To take big steps forward, we must first take baby steps. If we do not appreciate them, we will never appreciate the bold steps and frankly speaking, ignoring any progress at this time I feel is a sin. We all want the same thing, to revive our nation, to revive our spirits, our hopes, and most importantly our history which is trying to be hidden and destroyed. To get what we want, to finally find some peace of mind, we will need to take bold steps but appreciate even the smallest if we want anything to change. Allow us to take this time to appreciate what is being or has been done and without any sarcasm, politics, racism, or nationalism involved.

__________________________________________________ _______________

1. At Hrant Dink's funeral, tens of thousands of Turks flooded the streets of Istanbul, shouting out "We are all Armenians" and "We are all Hrant Dink".

2. A Turk gave away his family land as Genocide reparation.

3. Almost 30,000 Turks have signed a petition apologizing to all the Armenians around the world.

4. Many Turks have become very friendly with many Armenians and show their support in many, many ways.

5. A football game took place in Armenia between Turkey and Armenia. (It’s not much but definitely is some little step forward. Before, even that wasn’t possible)

Feel free to add to the list and only appropriate material please.

Out of 70 million people that's basically nothing.

[Sako]

Re: Baby Steps

Hm. I know guys, this isn't really much. In Armenia, on Shant TV, Istanbul is on almost everyday. We hear some great people that signed the petition including Hrant's best friends talk about the current situation. They say the same things I say most of the time. We have to talk. Turkey is in a very difficult stage right now. I didn't say this post is my idea of Justice but these little pebbles can spark a fire and bring down all these lies. Everyone on TV were saying that many people are ready to talk and they ask the Diaspora, the Armenians, and everyone else to begin having conversations and getting the truth out peacefully and in a more considerate, composed, and understanding way. Basically having more friendly relations (with those who deserve it). I agree and I think we should appreciate these pebbles. A few years back, you wouldn't be able to see even these pebbles. Although they seem small for us, they are HUGE steps for Turkey. It's hell over there and we should be more careful how we talk. My only point.

Out of 70 million people that's basically nothing.

This isn't all. I wanted others to post as well. Post some more pebbles guys if you know of any. This thread can show that we appreciate what's going on and perhaps be a spark of hope for many out there, showing that we all want to move on.

I think most armenians are now too impatient and we don't want to wait another 100 years for justice.

Then we WILL wait another hundred years simply because of that impatience. I know it's difficult waiting but we must be careful what we say and when we aren't believe it or not, that's another year piling up on all the other years we'll have to wait.

[Eddo211]

Re: Baby Steps

That is correct Saco.

Armenians must realize that in this age of internet this Turkish government is loosing and cannot control their people’s believes and can no longer deceit them effectively. A growing number of educated Turks are also coming to realize that to be a patriotic and a nationalist Turk does not mean that one follows and believes everything their leaders tell them with closed eyes but one must hold the same leaders and representatives responsible for their actions and force them to uphold the peoples rights and wishes……now of course this is at a very miniscule scale but it is moving in the right direction. As impossible as this is to do for us (especially myself) we must try to support these Turks who want change. Next year there might be 300,000 Turks signing an apology instead of 30,000 and so on.

By attacking and insulting these moderate Turks on every drop of a dime we are playing straight into the hands of their Government confirming the lies that have been programmed in their population. If we decide to pickup this challenge we will face many problems, it will come up when we don’t know which ones are good, bad, or ugly. Which ones are going to use this against us and which ones will play along just to screw us up. This is why I say that Turks must realize that this is not strictly an Armenian, Assyrian, Greek, or Kurdish problem but it is a major Turkish problem that they must solve for the good of the republic and the good of the people.


I suggest we treat everyone with the same respect that we would want to be treated with and give them the benefit of doubt…until it is time to not be so nice but even then there should be no reason to lower ourselves to their level.
There will be a long way to go before this even comes close to being successful in the grand scheme of things (Hell, It might never work) but a hole has been opened up in the Turkish society and the internet highway goes right through it.

Turks must also realize that this is not easy at all for us to do (the crimes against us has been so horrific that the hate has been sown in the fabric of our DNA) and they need to eventually try to see it from our point of view as well.
I really don’t know, I wished I did for sure.........my instincts tell me that Toorkere voshankam mart chenenel but my logic tells me that our young generation must at least try.

[Pazooki]

Re: Baby Steps

Hm. I know guys, this isn't really much. In Armenia, on Shant TV, Istanbul is on almost everyday. We hear some great people that signed the petition including Hrant's best friends talk about the current situation. They say the same things I say most of the time. We have to talk. Turkey is in a very difficult stage right now. I didn't say this post is my idea of Justice but these little pebbles can spark a fire and bring down all these lies. Everyone on TV were saying that many people are ready to talk and they ask the Diaspora, the Armenians, and everyone else to begin having conversations and getting the truth out peacefully and in a more considerate, composed, and understanding way. Basically having more friendly relations (with those who deserve it). I agree and I think we should appreciate these pebbles. A few years back, you wouldn't be able to see even these pebbles. Although they seem small for us, they are HUGE steps for Turkey. It's hell over there and we should be more careful how we talk. My only point.

No, why should we care about them when they don't care about us?

We went through hell and they didn't give a xxxx 15 years later after the Genocide to atleast help us out for something they are going to apologize for sooner or later. I don't give a xxxx about them if they don't give a xxxx about us.

[Anonymouse]

Re: Baby Steps

No, why should we care about them when they don't care about us?

We went through hell and they didn't give a xxxx 15 years later after the Genocide to atleast help us out for something they are going to apologize for sooner or later. I don't give a xxxx about them if they don't give a xxxx about us.

Don't you think this is basically a very simplistic outlook? This seems more grounded in emotion than logic.

Even Hellektor, who is notorious for his emotional banter has reason and logic at his side to try to formulate an argument.

Come on Sero.

[Pazooki]

Re: Baby Steps

Don't you think this is basically a very simplistic outlook? This seems more grounded in emotion than logic.

Even Hellektor, who is notorious for his emotional banter has reason and logic at his side to try to formulate an argument.

Come on Sero.

Then we shall hit him with emotion. >:]

[Sako]

Re: Baby Steps

Then we shall hit him with emotion.

You sure you've got what it takes, lol, or is this just your Man Bear Pig inside talking?

No, why should we care about them when they don't care about us?

We shouldn't care if that's what displeases you so much but rather simply be more careful in our choice of words and actions. Why? Because everything can be used against us. You say "why should we care about them when they don't care about us?" and this just shows how blind you are. The entire Turkish population is almost illiterate when it comes down to the AG or Armenian and Turkish relations so how the xxxx are they supposed to care? You wouldn't care if YOU were in their position, as well.

I prove my point it seems. Most look at the new generation as the murderers of the 1900's and that I find is unforgivable. If everyone knew the truth and continued their BS, I wouldn't give a hoot what happened to them or how they felt. But it's just the opposite and when people like you and so many other people don't see this, it just slows down our progress.

[Anonymouse]

Re: Baby Steps

You sure you've got what it takes, lol, or is this just your Man Bear Pig inside talking?

No, why should we care about them when they don't care about us?

We shouldn't care if that's what displeases you so much but rather simply be more careful in our choice of words and actions. Why? Because everything can be used against us. You say "why should we care about them when they don't care about us?" and this just shows how blind you are. The entire Turkish population is almost illiterate when it comes down to the AG or Armenian and Turkish relations so how the xxxx are they supposed to care? You wouldn't care if YOU were in their position, as well.

I prove my point it seems. Most look at the new generation as the murderers of the 1900's and that I find is unforgivable. If everyone knew the truth and continued their BS, I wouldn't give a hoot what happened to them or how they felt. But it's just the opposite and when people like you and so many other people don't see this, it just slows down our progress.

You were riling and inciting things up in the other thread. Keep that up and your candle will be extinguished.