Pontian Genocide

[merhayrenik]

Re: Pontian Genocide

I can agree that the debate or as you mentioned the historical and cultural publications could have been better in Europe when it comes to the expulsions and massacres of the Turks/Muslims from Balkan when the Christians(Greeks,Serbs,Bulgarians...) and Albanian Muslims were fighting for independence against the Ottoman Empire...however it wasn`t long time ago when the Serbs committed a genocide against the Bosnian Muslims in Srebrenica and the massacres against the Muslim Kosovo Albanians and shamelessly, the Europeans were extremely quiet and didn`t do anything instead let USA to take responsibility in order to stop the Serbs committing more crimes against the Muslims.I have to say though, the way USA forced Milosevic to withdraw his troops from Kosovo was outrageous.Instead of focusing on bombing Serbian military targets, they bombed civil areas.In fact, the Serbian military was actually intact after the bombings stopped.

As for Bosnia, the Dutch UN-soldiers knew what was going on in Srebrenica but didn`t lift a finger.I have heard though that they were being told not to interfere when the Serbs were committing genocide against the Bosnian Muslims.A lot of blame could be put on us Europeans for waiting for USA to get involved in order to stop these crimes against the Muslims in former Yugoslavija.Although the ICJ ruled that Serbia wasn`t directly responsible for genocide during the 1992-95 war they ruled that Serbia failed to use its influence with Bosnian Serbs to prevent the genocide of Bosnian Muslims at Srebrenica.Serbia`s President Boris Tadic actually apologized in 2005(if I remember correctly) to the Bosnian Muslims for the atrocities committed by Serbs.

If you look at the bigger picture, look what happened in Rwanda in 1994.An estimated 800,000 Rwandans were killed, most of the dead were Tutsis.And nobody lifted a finger.

Take for example what is going on now in Darfur, Sudan and nobody does anything.

Serbs were defending their historical territories from the albanian muslims. The albanian muslims killed over a million Serbs with Nazi Germany, what about that? You're brainwashed by the western turko-albo loving media.

[Alexandros]

Re: Pontian Genocide

I do belive there is a difference Alex. I just see that just maybe when its muslims or Turks dying it tends to be called massacre and when its Christians dying its called genocide. I just have a slight feeling that if you could measure bias in the totality of historical and cultural publications that exist today it would be slightly against non-Western-Christians, dont you think? And if this were the case isnt the reason for this bias that may be existing obvious?

I can agree that the debate or as you mentioned the historical and cultural publications could have been better in Europe when it comes to the expulsions and massacres of the Turks/Muslims from Balkan when the Christians(Greeks,Serbs,Bulgarians...) and Albanian Muslims were fighting for independence against the Ottoman Empire...however it wasn`t long time ago when the Serbs committed a genocide against the Bosnian Muslims in Srebrenica and the massacres against the Muslim Kosovo Albanians and shamelessly, the Europeans were extremely quiet and didn`t do anything instead let USA to take responsibility in order to stop the Serbs committing more crimes against the Muslims.I have to say though, the way USA forced Milosevic to withdraw his troops from Kosovo was outrageous.Instead of focusing on bombing Serbian military targets, they bombed civil areas.In fact, the Serbian military was actually intact after the bombings stopped.

As for Bosnia, the Dutch UN-soldiers knew what was going on in Srebrenica but didn`t lift a finger.I have heard though that they were being told not to interfere when the Serbs were committing genocide against the Bosnian Muslims.A lot of blame could be put on us Europeans for waiting for USA to get involved in order to stop these crimes against the Muslims in former Yugoslavija.Although the ICJ ruled that Serbia wasn`t directly responsible for genocide during the 1992-95 war they ruled that Serbia failed to use its influence with Bosnian Serbs to prevent the genocide of Bosnian Muslims at Srebrenica.Serbia`s President Boris Tadic actually apologized in 2005(if I remember correctly) to the Bosnian Muslims for the atrocities committed by Serbs.

If you look at the bigger picture, look what happened in Rwanda in 1994.An estimated 800,000 Rwandans were killed, most of the dead were Tutsis.And nobody lifted a finger.

Take for example what is going on now in Darfur, Sudan and nobody does anything.

[hitite]

Re: Pontian Genocide

Neither Greeks nor Armenians invaded Mongolia and proceeded to eradicate all evidence of Turkic people. Therefore, acts of violence against Turks cannot be considered genocide.

If Greece had “ethnically cleansed” Turks from Greece, there certainly would not be Turkish members of Greek parliament today. How many Greeks currently participate in Turkey’s government?

And, my friend, Turks had no business being in Greece (including Anatolia) in the first place. Violence committed in trying to free one’s country from an invader is justified. Are you trying to tell me that if “modern” day Turkey had been invaded by let’s say Australians, you wouldn’t react violently? I suggest you try to sell your story to people who don’t know what really happened.

Another joke, and this time its a Greek joke. Where do they teach you to be so twisted. Look at this guy pouting the all too memorised fantasy that all Turks are brainwashed if they dont agree with you. I think you all should be stroking your d.i.c.k.s a little more than your egos, its healthier.

We all know deep down the Greek would wish to have no Turk in Greece. I have been to Greece many times and I love it there. And I always talk politics in our own mediterranean way and its great. I dont know how many Greeks have told me there are no Turks in Greece and that they are Muslim Greeks. There is a lot of denial that they dont want to admit. And what is this freaking obsession with "Macedonia is Greek !!!"... Let go of it dude... Its ruining your "Greece is the cradle of civilisation" lipstick image you are so proud of. You are not the perfect country... nor is Turkey.

You deny your own intelligence when you state that there would be no Turks if Greece had a policy of Ethnic cleansing. Do you really think that because there are still Turks in Greece means that you didnt try. I dont blame you because as eradicators of great civilisations us Turks can understand your motives better than anybody else

Your reasoning about Turkish existance in Anatolia and your futile attempt at justifying the Greek INVASION of Anatolia because those lands belonged to you 600 years ago is just too funny. It just shows you are another brainwashed himself promoter of Turkish brainwashedness. A very very vicious circle I see there bro.

Since, I quote "Turks had no business being in Greece (including Anatolia) in the first place" would you suggest that everybody in the world move back to where they were 1000 years ago or do you only want this for the Turks?

[hitite]

Re: Pontian Genocide

hitite,

don`t you think there`s a difference between a "massacre" and a "genocide"?

The school books in Greece do mention about the massacres committed by the Greeks against the Turks in Tripolitsa, 1821 and the burning of the Bulgarian villages in the second Balkan war.

I do belive there is a difference Alex. I just see that just maybe when its muslims or Turks dying it tends to be called massacre and when its Christians dying its called genocide. I just have a slight feeling that if you could measure bias in the totality of historical and cultural publications that exist today it would be slightly against non-Western-Christians, dont you think? And if this were the case isnt the reason for this bias that may be existing obvious?

[hitite]

Re: Pontian Genocide

Hitite, in regards to your question: Genocide no……Kill, yes.

Once it became evident that we were left with no other choice other than to somehow find weapons and protect our people from certain doom we made all efforts to sabotage your macabre efforts against the Anatolian citizens…..we engaged you on several War fronts, against all odds and held you long enough to lead you to your eventual defeat in WWI.

Ever since then we have been this cronic pain that only grows with time…….....you sick man of Asia.




They just don’t get it, do they my Greek friend.

Sheers

I wasn't actually waiting for an example of a genocide committed against the Turks by the Armenians, are you nuts. Russo-Armenian rape and plunder of Turks and other Muslims in Anatolia are only atrocities and massacres which many "know it all" Armenians around here deny but which cannot amount to Genocide. I was thinking more in line with Stalin-style mass killings of Tatars and Caucasian Muslims and Serbian atrocities against Bosnian Muslims which many argue is Genocide and also the Bulgar-Greek mass killings of Turks in Thrace which I personally consider Genocide because my family is one which had to flee from the plunder. My close friends wife whose real name is Turkish had to get her Bulgarian passport under the name "Maya".. isnt that kind of screwed up and doesnt it smell like Ethinc cleansing of a country that is a member of the EU?

When it comes to Armenians and other Christians its WHOW.... Turks committed a billion Genocides. Everybody has blood on their hands in this geography, yet nobody wants to see their own bloody hands but cries about the "others" murders.

[Palavra]

Re: Pontian Genocide

but I imagine it would be more fruitful to have a conversation with an orangutan.

Whatever child. As I said before, I just wasted my time.

They just don’t get it, do they my Greek friend.

You guys have a collective moronity. We, Turks did nothing about this thread. No need to accuse us. You can kiss each other as at one million time. Who cares.

[Eddo211]

Re: Pontian Genocide

Hitite, in regards to your question: Genocide no……Kill, yes.

Once it became evident that we were left with no other choice other than to somehow find weapons and protect our people from certain doom we made all efforts to sabotage your macabre efforts against the Anatolian citizens…..we engaged you on several War fronts, against all odds and held you long enough to lead you to your eventual defeat in WWI.

Ever since then we have been this cronic pain that only grows with time…….....you sick man of Asia.

Not gonna happen.

They just don’t get it, do they my Greek friend.

Sheers

[gorgona]

Re: Pontian Genocide

@ Palavra

There is a difference between spreading Hellenism and conquering. Many lands were Hellenized even before Alexander because it was a better way of life. Now do I delude myself that Alexander was a nice guy? Of course not, he was brutal. Nor do I believe that the Egyptians and Persians were happy about being conquered. That’s a significant difference between us. You believe the notion of the Ottomans as benevolent. Not even a child would be so naďve.

As I’ve said, there is a Muslim minority consisting of, but not limited to, Turks, Pomaks, Roma and Greeks. And there are members of parliament that self-identify as Turks and are openly pro-Turkey. Try to read something besided anti-Greek propaganda. Did you say and I missed it? How many Christians in Turkey’s government?

I must say that I really am surprised at your level of ignorance (or possibly willful unawareness) ranging from geography to history. I could waste more of my time correcting your misinformation, but I imagine it would be more fruitful to have a conversation with an orangutan.

At least you admit what happened to the Armenians and Assyrians. And that is something.

[Palavra]

Re: Pontian Genocide

That is the difference. You believe (or at least want the rest of the world to believe) that the Ottomans/Turks were benevolent leaders. They brought goodness and candy to the lands they lovingly and generously occupied. That’s why I say sell to someone who doesn’t know better.

So you dont believe, Helenism and Helens spread their culture to egypt and persia? (do you see irony?)

Turks were more benevolent than their europen counter-part until nationalism.(I am sure, You will agree with this.) You know that even rebelions of serbs or other nationalities are against local lords not patisah himself. So Ottoman empire should be between good and evil. Like all empires. (Not a totally evil empire like you learn.)

As for the term Muslim vs. Turk in Greece, you are wrong again. Greece acknowledges her Turkish minority. Turkish is spoken and taught in schools in Thrace. There is a distinction made, however, between Turks and Muslims because not all Muslims living in Greece are Turks. Are you surprised? Why don’t you tell me how many Greeks (or Christians, if you prefer) participate in Turkey’s “secular” government?

are you living in greece? I think, You do not have enough knowledge about this issue. There is not turkish minority at greece. There is muslim minority. Ask your own goverment.

The fact remains that Turks were occupying Greek lands. Look it up, Anatolia was Greek.

No. It was not. home land of greeks is south and central part of greece and 2-3 city at Turkish part of eagean. North of greece is not mainland of greeks and anatolia is absolutely not home land of greeks. They occupied anatolia and asimilated local. Later, Turks occupied anatolia and reasimilated locals.

or do you want to tell me that hitits were greeks?

Who built all the temples and theaters, etc.,

You occupied others land and built something over occupied land. So what?Now, We have much mosques at anatolia than temples or churchs.

And I wouldn’t bring up Cyprus if I were you. Even the Eskimos know what happened there.

Realy. Do they know at that times greece is ruled by army and they tried to takeover cyprus. Even selected greek leader of cyprus is against greece. do eskimos also know, Makarios threated turkey with killing all Turks at cyprus. or they only know what happened after turkish attack?

Actually, you’ve got a nerve bringing up killing civilians after what happened to the Armenians, Pontians and Assyrians.

So what ? our hand is full of blood. So Your too.

We may owe something to armenians or assyrians but absolutely not greeks. They also did what they can do. So spare me with pontian genocide thing.

You also know that the Pontic dances and music are most certainly Greek.

Yeah yeah. So that is why there is not kemence in mainland greece. It is culture of blacksea and most probably laz. Neither greek nor Turks but locals of eastern blacksea. Lazish people.

You have enough glory at your history. No need to steal others thing. Baklava is greek.Dolma is greek. Doner is greek. I am realy curious If greek inherit ottoman empire or not.

But those living outside of Turkey should pull their heads out of the sand, admit the truth and help their brothers and sisters into the 21st century.

So maybe, They have a reason to not eat every dolma you make. You are as brainwashed as a standart turk.

[gorgona]

Re: Pontian Genocide

@ Palavra

So you can bring up Alexander and the Byzantines, but if I bring up anything from last week it’s b.s.? Here’s the thing. We know what empire means. We know how brutal Alexander actually was. We know every last bit of Greek history, good AND bad. That is the difference. You believe (or at least want the rest of the world to believe) that the Ottomans/Turks were benevolent leaders. They brought goodness and candy to the lands they lovingly and generously occupied. That’s why I say sell to someone who doesn’t know better.

As for the term Muslim vs. Turk in Greece, you are wrong again. Greece acknowledges her Turkish minority. Turkish is spoken and taught in schools in Thrace. There is a distinction made, however, between Turks and Muslims because not all Muslims living in Greece are Turks. Are you surprised? Why don’t you tell me how many Greeks (or Christians, if you prefer) participate in Turkey’s “secular” government?

The fact remains that Turks were occupying Greek lands. Look it up, Anatolia was Greek. Who built all the temples and theaters, etc., the Mongols? And I wouldn’t bring up Cyprus if I were you. Even the Eskimos know what happened there. Actually, you’ve got a nerve bringing up killing civilians after what happened to the Armenians, Pontians and Assyrians.

There are no words banned in Greece, and you know it. You also know that the Pontic dances and music are most certainly Greek.

Unlike you, I do not make blanket assumptions about a whole race of people, not even Turks. There are many of you who are brave enough to stand up to your government and speak the truth. I don’t even blame those in Turkey who don’t know any better because they were taught an approved version of Turkish history. But those living outside of Turkey should pull their heads out of the sand, admit the truth and help their brothers and sisters into the 21st century.