Kurds and Armenians

[kurd]

Hi guys,

I have some questions about relation between Armenians and Kurds in history and now. Today, I read some Turkish forums about this relations and some Turks say; Armenians, you guys, hate Kurds. So, I am wondering what you think about Kurds and Kurdish movement in Turkey?

Here is the page I have just read: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Armenian–Kurdish_relations

So, let me know guys what you think about relation between two nations?

If you think there exist some problems between two nations, what is the role of the genocide to these problems?

[bell-the-cat]

Re: Kurds and Armenians

Here is the page I have just read: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Armenia...dish_relations

Wikipedia lies and Kurdish lies. Any difference? Probably not.
I suppose if Wikipedia becomes a credible enough source for legitimate academia to become interested in editing its content, and if Kurds become an important enough ethnic group for legitimate academia to become interested in writing their history, then both sort of lies might lessen. But when they come together as Wikipedia articles about Kurds, things become so full of lies and distortions that things becomes laughably inaccurate.

The usual way to hide lies and distortions in Wikipedia articles is to resort to weasel-wording, and few Wikipedia articles are as full of weasily worded phrases as Kurdish-related ones. "Ancient Corduene, identified as Kurdistan in some sources" - a perfect example of weasel. Is there a "modern Corduene"? If "some sources" identify Corduene as Kurdistan, then other sources (presumably the majority of sources) identify it as something other than Kurdistan! "Armenians referred to the inhabitants of Corduene as Kordukh", weasily implying without actually saying (because saying needs sources) that "Kordukh" = "Kurd", but medieval Armenian sources actually refer to Kurds as "Meds". Medieval Armenian sources also do not talk of Kurds living throughout Armenia, yet we are weasily told that "Kurds and Armenians became increasingly distinct, both culturally and politically" implying that Kurds and Armenians were living mixed together since antiquity. No mention of the fact that Kurds are fairly recent migrants (and in many places VERY recent migrants) to most of the territory of historic Armenia - yet we are weasily told that "nomadic Turkic tribes" are recent migrants, conveying the Kurdish propaganda line that Turks have no right to be in "Kurdistan". However, it was actually those same Turkic tribes who, once settled in Armenia, invited and encouraged Kurds to migrate into Armenia!

[bell-the-cat]

Re: Kurds and Armenians

Found this:

http://kurdisharmenian.blogspot.com/

[retro]

Re: Kurds and Armenians

Medieval Armenian sources also do not talk of Kurds living throughout Armenia, yet we are weasily told that "Kurds and Armenians became increasingly distinct, both culturally and politically" implying that Kurds and Armenians were living mixed together since antiquity. No mention of the fact that Kurds are fairly recent migrants (and in many places VERY recent migrants) to most of the territory of historic Armenia - yet we are weasily told that "nomadic Turkic tribes" are recent migrants, conveying the Kurdish propaganda line that Turks have no right to be in "Kurdistan". However, it was actually those same Turkic tribes who, once settled in Armenia, invited and encouraged Kurds to migrate into Armenia!

Mr Cat

Whilst the Kurds where later Persianised. The Kurds ancestors may of been Hurrians, as the Hurrians had a Indo-European elite and they hail from much the same region. As although the Kurds are closely related to Western Asians such as the Armenians, Assyrians and Persians. They are somewhat removed genetically and they have a more southerly orientation. North Western, Kurdistan lies, on very old Anatolian ground and Turkish people aren't ethnically Turkic. As the Anatolian Turks and Kurds were originally Indo-Europeans.

[ara87]

Re: Kurds and Armenians

There are probably some Armenians who hate Kurds b/c of the role some antolian muslim Kurdish tribes played in the Armenian Genocide, and also b/c what Kurds claim as Kurdistan also overlaps on what territories Armenians claim as their own.

But keep in mind that Kurds who lived in the first Armenian Democratic Republic, sided with the Armenians when the Turks invaded and began the Turkish-Armenian war. The Kurds in the first democratic republic of Armenia also received political rights, there was a Kurdish representative elected to the Armenian Parliment, as well as Kurdish officers and volunteer units in the Armenian Army. Through the early 1920's there were over 50 school in Armenia opened for Kurds, there was even a Kurdish newspaper and radio station. And according to the Great Soviet Encyclopedia, during the Soviet period, Soviet Armenia was the main center for Kurdish literature, and Kurds even wrote in the Armenian script then before switching to latin and cyrilic scripts later on.

However later on in the 1930's during Stalinism, (Ataturk requested to and Stalin complied to have) many muslim Kurds were forcibly removed from Armenia/Karabakh and deported to central asia. Those that did remain, fled in the 1990's during the Nagorno Karabakh war.

However the Yezidi Kurds stayed and some even fought with the Armenian and Karabagh sides against the Azeris.

Today most of the Yezidi Kurd's live in Western Armenia, and have freedom of religion and non interference with thier culture. However many Yezidi children do not go to school b/c they do not speak Armenian, and others because they live in poverty (as do many ethnic armenians). There have been reported incidents of hazing against Yezidi conscripts in the Army, and allegations that police have poor responses to crimes commited against Yezidis in Armenia by US reports, however the Yezidi leadership in Armenia has not complained that police and local authorities subjected their community to discrimination.


While this does look bad on Armenia's part, keep in mind that the Kurds in Armenia are treated with less hostility than the ones in Turkey. In fact I'm sure Turkey just wants all the Kurds to believe Armenians hate them because they're afraid that one day Kurds, Armenians, Greeks, even Syrians, could all side against Turkey and take back land that used to belong to them

[Zartonq]

Re: Kurds and Armenians

But keep in mind that Kurds who lived in the first Armenian Democratic Republic, sided with the Armenians when the Turks invaded and began the Turkish-Armenian war. The Kurds in the first democratic republic of Armenia also received political rights, there was a Kurdish representative elected to the Armenian Parliment, as well as Kurdish officers and volunteer units in the Armenian Army. Through the early 1920's there were over 50 school in Armenia opened for Kurds, there was even a Kurdish newspaper and radio station. And according to the Great Soviet Encyclopedia, during the Soviet period, Soviet Armenia was the main center for Kurdish literature, and Kurds even wrote in the Armenian script then before switching to latin and cyrilic scripts later on.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but these were Yezidi Kurds, weren't they?

[ara87]

Re: Kurds and Armenians

I believe it was the Yezidi Kurds that helped fight against the Turks in the Turkish-Armenian war,

But there were many Muslim Kurds who lived in the present day areas Armenia and Karabakh, Azerbaijan, and even Georgia. Many of them were even from some tribes that had been in the area since the 18th century and were not responsible in any way for the action of other Anatolian Kurds in the Armenian Genocide.

However during Stalin's reign, through agreements with Turkey and for various other reasons, the majority of the Muslim Kurds in Armenia, Karabakh, and Azerbaijan were deported to Kazakhstan (At this time Stalin also deported Muslim Armenians and Muslim Hashemi's to Kazakhstan) and Muslim Kurds in Georgia became victims of Stalin's Purges.

Even after this though, there were still Muslim Kurds in Armenia and Karabakh, though most left after the war with Azerbaijan, to various other countries. And due to the destablization of Armenia from Soviet rule, and war with Azerbaijan the quality for the remaining Kurds in Armenia has deteriorated (as it also has for many Armenians), however Kurds are still treated better in Armenia then they are in Turkey or other regions of the middle east

[Hayayrun]

Re: Kurds and Armenians

Hi guys,

I have some questions about relation between Armenians and Kurds in history and now. Today, I read some Turkish forums about this relations and some Turks say; Armenians, you guys, hate Kurds. So, I am wondering what you think about Kurds and Kurdish movement in Turkey?

Here is the page I have just read: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Armenian–Kurdish_relations

So, let me know guys what you think about relation between two nations?

If you think there exist some problems between two nations, what is the role of the genocide to these problems?

Are you kinding, what a stupid question, of course armenians hate kurds, because kurds helped in 1915 turks by slaughtering nerly 1,5 000 000 armenian citizens uninocent people?
What are you thinking?
Should we armenians be happy abaut this tragedy?

Kurds are still proud about almost alimination of the armenian nation, but anyway today kurds are suffering under turkisch brutality.

Armenians never forget the famous "Hamidiye alayi" death squard of the sultan they were exclusively kurds.

Their can't never be a friendship between armenians and kurds, because of the "black history"

[retro]

Re: Kurds and Armenians

Maybe a Kurdish, Syrian block can control repair and reopen the Kirkuk-Banias oil pipeline.



As going forward the Turks orientation towards radical Islamism will isolate them further and the West will turn hostile towards Turkey.

[Armeniansurfer]

Re: Kurds and Armenians

Hello Kurd,

Most of the older generation have a great deal of animosity toward Kurds due to the Genocide. Even though some Kurds protected Armenians as did some righteous Turks, most of the discussions I have had show a fair amount of animosity. The Kurds I have encountered during my life, have been apologetic regarding their grandparents participation during the Genocide. The first Kurds I ever met were at USC. Others in my family have had the same experience. If Armenian's are a christian people we should try to forgive. The Kurds have been persecuted by the Turks for some time now. They have a clear understanding who the real enemy was; and the catastrophic consequences of the Turkish policy of divide and conquer.

Many Armenians will still continue to resent Kurds, however there are those like me who have desired to make a consensus effort to forgive, and build a new relationship.

Saludos,

John

Puerto Escondido, Mexico http://forum.hyeclub.com/images/icons/icon6.png