Kurds and Armenians

[Armeniansurfer]

Re: Kurds and Armenians

Hayayrun,

I think you answered the fellows question to some degree.....

However I Desiree with you conclusion. As evident in what took place in Tigranakert this month. Regarding the restoration of an Armenian Church, the Kurdish Mayor welcoming Armenians back. It was in the Armenian press. Take a look.

So wile I agree that the genocide is a black stain on Kurdish history, sincere atonement is a way to start.

Now if you want to keep hating them, I can understand. However they have the numbers, they are on our historic land, and they hate Turks. Do the math.

John

Puerto Escondido, Mexico

[Armeniansurfer]

Re: Kurds and Armenians

They me be Yezidi, but apparently the Kurds call them Kurds. They have a different religion from Kurds in Anatolia, however they are the same ethnicity.All the Kurds I have spoken to were surprisingly adamant about it. I have never spoken to a Yezidi, frankly we should probably ask them what they think. Anyone know any of them??

JK

[londontsi]

Re: Kurds and Armenians

... If Armenian's are a christian people we should try to forgive....

Let me remind you that you have no right (nor any individual) to forgive since you did not suffer individually the injustice.


All you need to do is to have a look at some of the harrowing photos of genocide victims and say,
never mind I am a Christian so I will forgive them on your behalf.

“Forgiveness” is the first step to “forgetness”.

Forget if you wish but please do not call the nation to the path of forgetness.

[Armeniansurfer]

Re: Kurds and Armenians

As one who's family to suffer loss during the Genocide, of course I have "The right" to say what I will. Further do not dare take my first amendment right from me. As you see I do have both a moral and legal right to say as I will regarding any Armenian issue. Try not to make assumptions regarding individuals you do not know.

Anyway I was quoting someone else regarding forgiveness. He is the center of our Christian faith, If Christianity is not your religion I suppose you do not have to forgive. Unfortunately it is mentioned quite a bit in that book. Not much I can do about that, Sorry...I did not make the rules.

Saludos,

John

Puerdo Escondido Mexico

[londontsi]

Re: Kurds and Armenians

If you think that Nations on this earth survive or meet their demise depending on how good Christians
they are you are living in the “World of Alice in Wonderland”.

Smart people (politically) learn from others mistakes.
Unlucky ones from their own mistakes.

Dum people never learn.

The reason? because they do not have (emotional) knowledge, no engrained memory,
flippant about those terrible events, unable to understand its consequences and the heavy toll on the nation, still on-going.

YES I repeat nobody has the right to offer forgiveness on behalf of those who suffered NOT even a President of Armenia.

As for you and your first amendment YOU can forgive and forget and join all those before you,
thus preparing their next generation who will grow with no knowledge who they are.

[londontsi]

Re: Kurds and Armenians

Anyway I was quoting someone else regarding forgiveness.

You mean "copy and paste", not applying you judgement.

He is the center of our Christian faith, If Christianity is not your religion I suppose you do not have to forgive. Unfortunately it is mentioned quite a bit in that book. Not much I can do about that, Sorry...I did not make the rules.

If somebody commits a crime, as part of his retribution he asks for forgiveness.

If the crime was done to YOU its up to YOU to forgive or not.
If the crime was done to (say) a member of your family then you listen in dignity without uttering the words
“I forgive” since it was not you who was the recipient of the action.

However in this case the criminal is not even considering to ask for forgiveness
how on earth those “good Christians” shouting from their perches “I forgive, I forgive,.... I am a good christian,.... its in the book” etc etc ..... simply bizarre.


Incidentally I am a Christian and I believe in God.

Also I never forget the “first amendment” that God gave me as an instinct to do my utmost
to survive both as a living creature and with my identity.

[bell-the-cat]

Re: Kurds and Armenians

They me be Yezidi, but apparently the Kurds call them Kurds. They have a different religion from Kurds in Anatolia, however they are the same ethnicity.All the Kurds I have spoken to were surprisingly adamant about it. I have never spoken to a Yezidi, frankly we should probably ask them what they think. Anyone know any of them??

JK

".... all the Kurds I have spoken to". That says it all. I'm sorry - but if you base things on what Kurds tell you then your perceptions will be far away from truth.

You protest against hatred towards Kurds, but at the same time want to continue hatred towards Turks. Isn't that contraditory? And as for Kurdish apologies - it is easy to apologise when you have nothing to loose by giving the apology, need to do nothing after giving the apology, and have much to gain from giving it.

[bell-the-cat]

Re: Kurds and Armenians

Incidentally I am a Christian and I believe in God.

I doubt that. You may sincerely think you are, but few "Christians" are actually Christians. Your opinion that you cannot give forgiveness to others for what those others did to a third party, if you want to attach it to a religion, is actually very Islamic in outlook.

What Kurds and Turks need to do is just have full understanding and acceptance of what happened, not give mostly for show apologies that may mean different things to different people. Do they even know what they are apologising for?

[londontsi]

Re: Kurds and Armenians

Lets also not forget that Kurds joined/served the Turks (the Sultan) because rewards were promised.

However the plight of the Kurds is what it is because they were double crossed by the Turks once the Armenian problem was “eliminated”.

Of course now they complain they are a victim.

All I can say “shune shunin mise togh oude”.

[londontsi]

Re: Kurds and Armenians

I doubt that. You may sincerely think you are, but few "Christians" are actually Christians. Your opinion that you cannot give forgiveness to others for what those others did to a third party, if you want to attach it to a religion, is actually very Islamic in outlook.

If you ever followed Armenian religious sermons etc the cleric never says “you be forgiven” but instead “May God forgive you”.

So my definition is very much to the Armenian church that I am aware of. Cannot comment on other religions.

Therefore I disagree with you as far as being of Islamic outlook.

What Kurds and Turks need to do is just have full understanding and acceptance of what happened, not give mostly for show apologies that may mean different things to different people. Do they even know what they are apologising for?

Apologies and forgiveness as you say are just words.
Seeking forgiveness also involves righting the wrong.... as far as possible in “cooperation” with the "victim".