Kurds and Armenians

[retro]

Re: Kurds and Armenians

Armanen

Syria could go the same way as Iraq and the Armenians and Syrian Christians in Syria need to be armed.

Many Arab political parties have not been forthcoming in expressing support for Kurdish rights if and when the current regime in Damascus falls, leaving many Kurds with a feeling that they might not benefit from a regime change if they strongly oppose Assad. So far, the Syrian security forces have not meted out the same violent response to Kurdish protesters, hoping not to anger them and broaden the ranks of opposition.

Bashar told Rudaw that Ghalioun expressed positive views in the meeting about Kurdish rights but declined to disclose the details.

In his speech at the Friends of Syria conference in Tunisia, Ghalioun said that the post-Assad Syria will recognize Kurdish rights.

Speaking to Rudaw from London, Usama al-Munjed, spokesman for the SNC, said Ghalioun�s words express the SNC�s view.

http://www.rudaw.net/english/news/syria/4473.html

[Hayayrun]

Re: Kurds and Armenians

You people are pathetic and are no different from the Turks that deny your genocide. First of all, not all Kurds assisted the Turks in their wrong doings, secondly the Kurds that joined were mostly Kurmanji (Sorani Kurds like me had no part in it) not that it matters, we're all Kurds, however the Kurmanji Kurds did it because the Armenians massacred so many Kurds with the aid of the Russians in places like Rawanduz (Southern "Iraqi" Kurdistan), stop acting all innocent, I'm not one to deny the genocide, however you also had your hands full of blood.

What a bullshid posting from a sun of a xxxxx ...

xxxx off from our forum this is an armenian forum and not a kurdish, there is no place for a sun of a xxxxx ...

Kurds are still arse-licker of turks go back to your popular turkey and be happy about, that the turkish army kills even innocent kurdish civilians.

[Armanen]

Re: Kurds and Armenians

You people are pathetic and are no different from the Turks that deny your genocide. First of all, not all Kurds assisted the Turks in their wrong doings, secondly the Kurds that joined were mostly Kurmanji (Sorani Kurds like me had no part in it) not that it matters, we're all Kurds, however the Kurmanji Kurds did it because the Armenians massacred so many Kurds with the aid of the Russians in places like Rawanduz (Southern "Iraqi" Kurdistan), stop acting all innocent, I'm not one to deny the genocide, however you also had your hands full of blood.

Most of you are worthless peasants, and your people have shown it time and time again. Why did you come to post your bulls*it here? Kurds who were involved in the Genocide apologized and asked for forgiveness from Armenians. Our beef is not with Kurds but with the regime in Ankara and their minions in Baku, no reason to stick your head in this mess, unless of course you aim to destroy the regime in Ankara. Then we may have common cause.

[hrai]

Re: Kurds and Armenians

You people are pathetic and are no different from the Turks that deny your genocide. First of all, not all Kurds assisted the Turks in their wrong doings, secondly the Kurds that joined were mostly Kurmanji (Sorani Kurds like me had no part in it) not that it matters, we're all Kurds, however the Kurmanji Kurds did it because the Armenians massacred so many Kurds with the aid of the Russians in places like Rawanduz (Southern "Iraqi" Kurdistan), stop acting all innocent, I'm not one to deny the genocide, however you also had your hands full of blood.

Go away kurd. yes you're all kurds, not a nation just something that sticks on the shoe.

[kurdman]

Re: Kurds and Armenians

You people are pathetic and are no different from the Turks that deny your genocide. First of all, not all Kurds assisted the Turks in their wrong doings, secondly the Kurds that joined were mostly Kurmanji (Sorani Kurds like me had no part in it) not that it matters, we're all Kurds, however the Kurmanji Kurds did it because the Armenians massacred so many Kurds with the aid of the Russians in places like Rawanduz (Southern "Iraqi" Kurdistan), stop acting all innocent, I'm not one to deny the genocide, however you also had your hands full of blood.

[bell-the-cat]

Re: Kurds and Armenians

I find your opinion relevant only in that it reinforces my opinion that almost everything Armenians do and think in relation to Armenian Genocide recognition is, basically, irrelevant. It is an historical event, but you trivialise it - stop going on as if it is something that has just happened to your immediate family. You wear it as if it were a fashion accessory (for some, a worn once a year one, for others, worn daily).

Your thinking about what you actually want is so muddy that, if you say you want a particular something, and that is then attained, you will then say that it not what you actually wanted - that you want something else. Ultimately it ends by you stating you want the impossible, that alone will be satisfactory. Why should anyone offer anything, move in any way closer, if only offering the impossible will satisfy (an impossible that can never actually be delivered)?

I find your observation irrelevant.

Present day Turkey is a secular state, so we are told.
As far as I am aware the courts there are not Islamic (practising Sharia Law).
As I mentioned blood money has never been raised since its not in our religion/culture.
There are few Islamic countries who apply Sharia Law to non Muslims.

Most importantly it would be farcical to seek justice in the courts of the accused.


Coming to my original issue which was “offering forgiveness”.

The crime was organised and perpetrated by the State and its agents.
This is well established with research and documentary evidence.

Present day Turkey is the inheritor of the previous regimes.
Also there is undeniable evidence that they pursued similar policies and objectives.

Turkey is uneasy.
Proof, change in its posture and attitude over time albeit not accepting any liability despite indefensible evidence.

Why this change.
Clearly they are playing for time using some cosmetic gestures.
I have to say very clumsily and great embarrassment to itself.

Therefore the “parties” are,

Firstly the Turkish state and its agents, who are not be alive and cannot be answerable personally, but the state is.
Secondly the victims at personal level, who also not alive and the survivors, the Nation, whatever was left of them similarly not alive now because of time .
Thirdly the present day Nation (the inheritors) and the State that represents them.

My point is present day Nation individually or the State of Armenia cannot offer forgiveness.
The reason, because they did bear the suffering personally.

Also forgiveness implies “lets forget about it”.
These dark event are part of our history.
You cannot change history by forgiving events in history.

It is not surprising one of the tactics of Turkey is to rewrite history.
That would be a very convenient shortcut to close the whole issue and pulling the rug under our feet.

[londontsi]

Re: Kurds and Armenians

That is not "third party" - that is just one party (the wronged) seeking or getting financial compensation from another party, from the person who did the wrong (or from his/her immediate relatives).

(Ignoring philosophical arguments that to deny genocide is to commit it) nobody alive today took part in the Armenian Genocide, so there is nobody around to pay "blood money". What I meant by "third party" was a sense of collective guilt and a need to atone for what non-specific ancestors within your ethnic or cultural group committed. There is no concept of, or tradition of, that being done in Islam.

I find your observation irrelevant.

Present day Turkey is a secular state, so we are told.
As far as I am aware the courts there are not Islamic (practising Sharia Law).
As I mentioned blood money has never been raised since its not in our religion/culture.
There are few Islamic countries who apply Sharia Law to non Muslims.

Most importantly it would be farcical to seek justice in the courts of the accused.


Coming to my original issue which was “offering forgiveness”.

The crime was organised and perpetrated by the State and its agents.
This is well established with research and documentary evidence.

Present day Turkey is the inheritor of the previous regimes.
Also there is undeniable evidence that they pursued similar policies and objectives.

Turkey is uneasy.
Proof, change in its posture and attitude over time albeit not accepting any liability despite indefensible evidence.

Why this change.
Clearly they are playing for time using some cosmetic gestures.
I have to say very clumsily and great embarrassment to itself.

Therefore the “parties” are,

Firstly the Turkish state and its agents, who are not be alive and cannot be answerable personally, but the state is.
Secondly the victims at personal level, who also not alive and the survivors, the Nation, whatever was left of them similarly not alive now because of time .
Thirdly the present day Nation (the inheritors) and the State that represents them.

My point is present day Nation individually or the State of Armenia cannot offer forgiveness.
The reason, because they did bear the suffering personally.

Also forgiveness implies “lets forget about it”.
These dark event are part of our history.
You cannot change history by forgiving events in history.

It is not surprising one of the tactics of Turkey is to rewrite history.
That would be a very convenient shortcut to close the whole issue and pulling the rug under our feet.

[bell-the-cat]

Re: Kurds and Armenians

As a matter of fact forgiveness for “third party” the Islamic way is through “blood money”,
something that does not exist or practiced by Christians.

That is not "third party" - that is just one party (the wronged) seeking or getting financial compensation from another party, from the person who did the wrong (or from his/her immediate relatives).

(Ignoring philosophical arguments that to deny genocide is to commit it) nobody alive today took part in the Armenian Genocide, so there is nobody around to pay "blood money". What I meant by "third party" was a sense of collective guilt and a need to atone for what non-specific ancestors within your ethnic or cultural group committed. There is no concept of, or tradition of, that being done in Islam.

[londontsi]

Re: Kurds and Armenians

I want to send you an a link to an article. Regarding the Kurdish Mayor of Tigranagert. Give me your honest opinion of this fellow. Should we really hate this guy. Please check it out. It is very interesting.

"Seeking forgiveness also involves righting the wrong." I think this fellow is trying to do this. I would like to center the discussion regarding those kurds who what to address "the Genocide". Can we agree on that. You will find this most interesting.

Just check this guy out.

http://www.armenianweekly.com/2011/10/29/demirbas/

You have an early reply.
In politics you must be so careful who do you put your bet on.

http://www.todayszaman.com/news-262078-prosecutor-seeks-up-to-28-years-in-prison-for-diyarbakir-mayor-baydemir.html

Prosecutor seeks up to 28 years in prison for Diyarbakır Mayor Baydemir




Diyarbakır Mayor Osman Baydemir faces up to 28 years in prison on charges of spreading propaganda for a terrorist organization and committing a crime on behalf of a terrorist organization without holding membership.


An indictment filed against Baydemir, a member of Turkey's pro-Kurdish Peace and Democracy Party (BDP), by the Diyarbakır Public Prosecutor's Office was accepted by the Diyarbakır 7th High Criminal Court on Tuesday. The indictment says Baydemir attended the funeral of seven terrorists from the outlawed Kurdistan Workers' Party (PKK) in April 2011 in Diyarbakır. The indictment accuses Baydemir of spreading propaganda for the PKK in a demonstration held in Diyarbakır to protest the killing of the seven terrorists by Turkish security forces.

Stating that Baydemir most recently attended a protest held to protest the capture of jailed PKK leader Abdullah Öcalan in Kenya on Feb. 15, 1999 on its anniversary, the indictment accuses Baydemir of showing solidarity with Öcalan and spreading propaganda for the PKK during this demonstration as well.

[londontsi]

Re: Kurds and Armenians

I doubt that. You may sincerely think you are, but few "Christians" are actually Christians. Your opinion that you cannot give forgiveness to others for what those others did to a third party, if you want to attach it to a religion, is actually very Islamic in outlook.

As a matter of fact forgiveness for “third party” the Islamic way is through “blood money”,
something that does not exist or practiced by Christians.