Kurds and Armenians

[Mos]

Re: Kurds and Armenians

@Armeniansurfer

Kurds can go to hell along with Turks. They killed probably more Armenians than Turks, they did the dirty work of the Turks. They betrayed their neighbours for some quick riches and lands. They still remain today a backwards, mountain people, nothing good has come out of them. The only thing they are good at is looting and killing.

[londontsi]

Re: Kurds and Armenians

If I was a doctor looking signs to pass judgement on a patient my observations would be as follows.

My Grand dad was a Tashnak revolutionary

We do not ( I certainly don't ) live in a feudal society (and mentality).
Your development as a human and as an Armenian is dependent on your own achievements and not your grand father or your grand grand father.

I want to send you an a link to an article. Regarding the Kurdish Mayor of Tigranagert. Give me your honest opinion of this fellow. Should we really hate this guy. Please check it out. It is very interesting.

"Seeking forgiveness also involves righting the wrong." I think this fellow is trying to do this. I would like to center the discussion regarding those kurds who what to address "the Genocide". Can we agree on that. You will find this most interesting.

Just check this guy out.

http://www.armenianweekly.com/2011/10/29/demirbas/

I have already said

Smart people (politically) learn from others mistakes.
Unlucky ones from their own mistakes.

Dum people never learn.

Kurds today have no authority constitutionally or otherwise to decide or rectify results of the event that happened nearly 100 years ago in present day Turkey.
However they are (morally) guilty since they were (their ancestors were voluntary ) party to those events.

For Turks this is an ideal trap for Armenians, projecting an impression that significant changes happening to the benefit of the Armenians.
The reality is this is only skin deep and is only to the benefit of the naive Armenian, unfortunately we have enough of those in the guise of good Christians and whatever else.

Saludos,

John

You seem already comfortable and proud with your new identity.
It appears to be below you to salute in Armenian in an Armenian forum.

Assimilation mostly describes erosion round the edges.
You obviously happy it has gone to your core and happy you have passed the point of no return.

[Armeniansurfer]

Re: Kurds and Armenians

I doubt that. You may sincerely think you are, but few "Christians" are actually Christians. Your opinion that you cannot give forgiveness to others for what those others did to a third party, if you want to attach it to a religion, is actually very Islamic in outlook.

What Kurds and Turks need to do is just have full understanding and acceptance of what happened, not give mostly for show apologies that may mean different things to different people. Do they even know what they are apologising for?

Yup, everyone struggles being a Good Christian. I would be lying if I said I a good Christian.

My intention was to open a discussion on how to deal with a "righteous Kurd" Should we keep hating them? after he said he is very sorry? My encounters have been with Kurds who I believe were sincere. These were educated people with a full knowledge of the atrocities. Maybe others had encounters that were negative, mine were not.

The Turks I have met seem to think they did not kill anyone or that it was a great idea......I get angry just thinking of them.

But please check this link out and see what you think. I was very surprised... I also have it in another post. I think after reading this it may change the discussion a bit.



http://www.armenianweekly.com/2011/10/29/demirbas/


John

Puerto Escondido, Mexico

[Armeniansurfer]

Re: Kurds and Armenians

Hi Bell and Cat also Londontsi,

Ok.... so what do you do when one of these guy's atones for what they did?? This is my point.

You had the two criminals on each side of the side of the cross, one repented. How do handle when one of these Kurdish fellows repents?? So let's continue on that bases.

My Grand dad was a Tashnak revolutionary. He had a white horse and a rifle, went around killing the bad guy's. I understand were you are coming from. But if we can find righteous Kurds who want to atone for what their Grandparents did, we should at least listen to them.

"Seeking forgiveness also involves righting the wrong." or asking for forgiveness. What do you do if this happens??

The Armenian priests I knew, as we have had many discussions in my youth, hold forgiveness as something central. As a youth I definitely held you ideas. And as I recalled I was quite irritated at the poor priest....

I want to send you an a link to an article. Regarding the Kurdish Mayor of Tigranagert. Give me your honest opinion of this fellow. Should we really hate this guy. Please check it out. It is very interesting.

"Seeking forgiveness also involves righting the wrong." I think this fellow is trying to do this. I would like to center the discussion regarding those kurds who what to address "the Genocide". Can we agree on that. You will find this most interesting.

Just check this guy out.

http://www.armenianweekly.com/2011/10/29/demirbas/

Saludos,

John

[bell-the-cat]

Re: Kurds and Armenians

If you ever followed Armenian religious sermons etc the cleric never says “you be forgiven” but instead “May God forgive you”.

So my definition is very much to the Armenian church that I am aware of.

However, from Matthew, Chapter 6

For if ye forgive men their trespasses, your heavenly Father will also forgive you.
But if ye forgive not men their trespasses, neither will your Father forgive your trespasses.

[londontsi]

Re: Kurds and Armenians

I doubt that. You may sincerely think you are, but few "Christians" are actually Christians. Your opinion that you cannot give forgiveness to others for what those others did to a third party, if you want to attach it to a religion, is actually very Islamic in outlook.

If you ever followed Armenian religious sermons etc the cleric never says “you be forgiven” but instead “May God forgive you”.

So my definition is very much to the Armenian church that I am aware of. Cannot comment on other religions.

Therefore I disagree with you as far as being of Islamic outlook.

What Kurds and Turks need to do is just have full understanding and acceptance of what happened, not give mostly for show apologies that may mean different things to different people. Do they even know what they are apologising for?

Apologies and forgiveness as you say are just words.
Seeking forgiveness also involves righting the wrong.... as far as possible in “cooperation” with the "victim".

[londontsi]

Re: Kurds and Armenians

Lets also not forget that Kurds joined/served the Turks (the Sultan) because rewards were promised.

However the plight of the Kurds is what it is because they were double crossed by the Turks once the Armenian problem was “eliminated”.

Of course now they complain they are a victim.

All I can say “shune shunin mise togh oude”.

[bell-the-cat]

Re: Kurds and Armenians

Incidentally I am a Christian and I believe in God.

I doubt that. You may sincerely think you are, but few "Christians" are actually Christians. Your opinion that you cannot give forgiveness to others for what those others did to a third party, if you want to attach it to a religion, is actually very Islamic in outlook.

What Kurds and Turks need to do is just have full understanding and acceptance of what happened, not give mostly for show apologies that may mean different things to different people. Do they even know what they are apologising for?

[bell-the-cat]

Re: Kurds and Armenians

They me be Yezidi, but apparently the Kurds call them Kurds. They have a different religion from Kurds in Anatolia, however they are the same ethnicity.All the Kurds I have spoken to were surprisingly adamant about it. I have never spoken to a Yezidi, frankly we should probably ask them what they think. Anyone know any of them??

JK

".... all the Kurds I have spoken to". That says it all. I'm sorry - but if you base things on what Kurds tell you then your perceptions will be far away from truth.

You protest against hatred towards Kurds, but at the same time want to continue hatred towards Turks. Isn't that contraditory? And as for Kurdish apologies - it is easy to apologise when you have nothing to loose by giving the apology, need to do nothing after giving the apology, and have much to gain from giving it.

[londontsi]

Re: Kurds and Armenians

Anyway I was quoting someone else regarding forgiveness.

You mean "copy and paste", not applying you judgement.

He is the center of our Christian faith, If Christianity is not your religion I suppose you do not have to forgive. Unfortunately it is mentioned quite a bit in that book. Not much I can do about that, Sorry...I did not make the rules.

If somebody commits a crime, as part of his retribution he asks for forgiveness.

If the crime was done to YOU its up to YOU to forgive or not.
If the crime was done to (say) a member of your family then you listen in dignity without uttering the words
“I forgive” since it was not you who was the recipient of the action.

However in this case the criminal is not even considering to ask for forgiveness
how on earth those “good Christians” shouting from their perches “I forgive, I forgive,.... I am a good christian,.... its in the book” etc etc ..... simply bizarre.


Incidentally I am a Christian and I believe in God.

Also I never forget the “first amendment” that God gave me as an instinct to do my utmost
to survive both as a living creature and with my identity.