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A shift in priorities?

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  • #31
    As long as Turkey is more significant than Armenia, forget recognition from anyone. I still stand by my point that Armenia should work on becoming a model nation that everyone wants to follow. Why should she not be able to do that? Is our inferiority complex so high that we think that we'll never able to become a model nation? That like Turkey, we can only feel better about ourselves once we join the Union of Bandits (aka EU)? I'll tell you a secret that you already know: Armenia IS already a country of bandits. How come we're not proud of Armenia now, but we're jumping up and down to be accepted by the UB?

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    • #32
      "A model Nation", excellent point. "For the Glory that is Rome!" God I love that.

      Comment

      • #33
        -Pyunik-, what you and Hayk both say is that we need to switch our resources from genocided recognition to helping Armenia. No one addresses though how I already said, are we REALLY using that much towards genocide recognition? We don't have any massive funds that all Armenians contribute towards that solely goes for genocide recognition. ANC is closest thing to that and it doesn't just work on the genocide issue, which as I said has only come up twice in the US in almost 5 years. So if it's an issue that basically isn't even up for discussion in America for most of the time, how are we concentrating everything just on it? What I'm saying is we do help Armenia as much as we can with donations and such, I don't know how else the Diaspora can help except for investing in it and/or moving there. So that's a great thing Armenians should be doing. But they aren't all that much, and that's what you and Hayk have been speaking out against. Where your fault comes though is you seem to want to believe all that will happen if we drop the genocide issue. I assure you, deciding after 50 years of constant memorialization of it to just drop it all together, that in no way will all of a sudden get Armenians donating millions more dollars and moving there by the thousands. It just won't.
        The amount of actual resources we put towards genocide recognition isn't that large, and really working towards it is the only thing a lot of American-Armenians can do for Armenia. I for example do not have enough money to be showering Armenia with money, or to be going there and investing in it. Those are the things Pyunik thinks we all should do. That fact, just like with everyone else, will change in no way because we drop the genocide issue. One thing I CAN do though is fight for recognition, write my Congressman, etc., and it is something constructive I can contribute to Armenia. Dropping the genocide recognition would only take that away from me. Then I really couldn't do anything for it.
        Our lobby groups are the only ones that actually spend some amounts concentrating on genocide recognition, but they do a lot more! Without them, Armenia would have even less support in Washington and then just forget it. I can see no benefits at all from dropping the genocide recognition. What, it'll get Turkey to open the border like they claim? No, they still have Karabakh to hang over our head. If there was a chance dropping the genocide resolution would immediately open the border, I can understand where you'd have a point (though I'd still oppose it). Since that isn't even an option though I simply cannot fathom why you would continue so vehemently for it.

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        • #34
          The Genocide recognition is not going to bring back the lost lands or the lost people. It is not going to give us money or anything else. Therefore, it is useless. We need to focus on Armenia and the Communities before they assimilate! Whatever you want madcat, it is your view that keeps on getting Armenia in a tight spot.

          As I see it, Karabagh was Artificially created by the Russians to bog down both Armenia and Azerbaijan in a war so Russia can still have influence there (as were the Abkhazians in Georgia). If I could go back and stop the war from ever happening, I would, because Armenia could have used Azeri oil and Georgian ports to prosper. Plus, so many bright Baku-Armenians and Tflis-Armenians ran because of all these crisiss. But because we fought the war, we need to come to an agreement that would satisfy both Azeris and Armenians.

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          • #35
            Originally posted by Hayq
            As I see it, Karabagh was Artificially created by the Russians to bog down both Armenia and Azerbaijan in a war so Russia can still have influence there (as were the Abkhazians in Georgia). If I could go back and stop the war from ever happening, I would, because Armenia could have used Azeri oil and Georgian ports to prosper. Plus, so many bright Baku-Armenians and Tflis-Armenians ran because of all these crisiss. But because we fought the war, we need to come to an agreement that would satisfy both Azeris and Armenians.
            Well at least we agree on one thing, the Karabakh problem was created by Russia so it'd have more influence. Stalin gave Karabakh to Azerbaijan to create a problem that he'd be able to control and keep control over the region. Because of this though, the war was inevitable. Due to the suppression of the Soviet Union the problem never erupted during Stalin's lifetime, and as soon as Armenians started getting freedom under relaxed Soviet rules the protests began. I wouldn't go so far to say I wish the war never happened, because while I don't support wars having Karabakh and its Armenians under Azerbaijani control was not an ideal situation at all. This is a conflict that never needed to occur because Stalin should have never given it to Azerbaijan, but what's done is done and now we're in a mess. Azerbaijan has to see that it was really never theirs (but they are stubborn and will continue to think that) and that is why we have this problem. Compromises do need to be made, but I don't think giving Azerbaijan control over both Karabakh and all the Armenian-captured territories as well with nothing but "a measure of autonomy" in return (which is the Azeri plan) is acceptable in any way. Especially considering Armenians won the war, since when does one country win and yet gets nothing for winning?!

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            • #36
              Stalin gave karabagh to Azeris because he hated Armenians. He admited that. Karabagh was created during 88 to keep Russian influence.

              Comment

              • #37
                Originally posted by IAmMadAtAC
                There's a reason people are clamoring to join the EU and not Armenia.
                Didn't reply to this. I'll be kind enough to ignore your previous comment.

                There are two reasons: 1) people who are clamoring to join the EU have NO idea what the EU stands for; 2) Armenia is as bad as the EU when it comes to politicians, but the EU is doing a better job at covering it up.

                People will want to move to Armenia en masse if Armenia ever manages to be the first country in the world ever to be run by honest people. Now isn't THAT something to be proud of?

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                • #38
                  Nairi, I have to agree. An honest man is neccesary.

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                  • #39
                    Hayq, it's SOVIET(S) God damn it, NOT Russian(S)!

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                    • #40
                      Big deal! Stop kissing Russian arse, they are not going to help us. Drop the SF crap too. White people do not care about Armenians.

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