Armenian Patriarch Of Turkey Issues Bold Message On Genocide

[ARK]

Re: Armenian Patriarch Of Turkey Issues Bold Message On Genocide

Their position is uneasy and difficult, at a flick the Turk can turn around and inflict another September 1955 on them, and our compatriots don't want that. Why run risks if they are making money and living it up in Istanbul

If that’s the case, they could simply leave the country, this is not a life they are living in the 21st century.

[gmd]

Re: Armenian Patriarch Of Turkey Issues Bold Message On Genocide

If that’s the case, they could simply leave the country, this is not a life they are living in the 21st century.

Gone are the days of Christian martyrs, who would rather die for what they believed then live in a lie.

[TomServo]

Re: Armenian Patriarch Of Turkey Issues Bold Message On Genocide

Turkio metch krna ir beran@ pak pahel.

She agrees with you:

ԼՌԻ´Ր, ՄԱՐԴ ԱՍՏԾՈ
( ՉՏՊԱԳՐՎԱԾ ՆԱՄԱԿԻՍ ՀԵՏՔԵՐՈՎ )

Կարդալով հոկտեմբերի “Ազգի” 18-ի համարում “Ռամազանի պաս է պահում նաև Մութաֆյան պատրիարքը’ չլքելու համար մահմեդական եղբայրներին” հոդվածը ցնցվեցի. Ինչպիսի՜ քամելիոնություն… Եվ նորից “Ազգ”-ի 26-ի համարում տպագրված “Մութաֆյանը դարձյալ Թուրքիայի խոսնակ” Մուրադ Մուրադյանի հեղինակած հոդվածը, որը երկար խորհելու տեղիք է տալիս, որը վերջնականապես պատռում է նրա դիմակը : Մինչև ե՞րբ պետք է շարունակվի ազգային դավաճանությունը: Դեռևս անցած հոկտեմբերին, երբ նա սկսեց իր դավաճանական արարքները, ( Կապված Թուրքիայի Եվրոանդամակցության հետ) ես որպես ահազանգ “Ազգին” ուղարկեցի իմ “Լռի´ր, մարդ Աստծո” նամակը, բայց ցավոք այն չարժանացավ խմբագրության ուշադրությանը ու չտպագրվեց, թերթի խմբագիր պարոն Ավետիքյանը երևի չուզեց խորը վիրավորել պատրիարք Մութաֆյանին ու արատավորել հայ հոգևորականի անունը, կարծելով, որ նա կանգ կառնի, և արդյունքում ստացվեց այն, որ պատրիարքը մոռանալով, թե ի՞նչ առաքելություն ունի կատարելու, մասնակցում է Մահմեդական Ռամազանի տոնին ու նրանց հետ պաս պահում, ասելով, “Համ հայ է, համ էլ թուրք”: Ցնորվել կարելի է. ինչպես է հանդուրժում Պոլսահայ համայնքը նման հոգևոր առաջնորդի ներկայությունը : Արդեն բոլորովին չեմ կասկածում, որ նա մեր սուրբ հարկի տակ իսլամ քարոզի: Կատարված փաստերը ավելի խորացրեցին իմ համոզմունքները, և ուղիղ մեկ տարի անց նորից ուղարկում եմ իմ հոդվածն, որը պահպանվել էր իմ համակարգիչում. կարծում եմ, որ երբեք էլ ժամանակավրեպ չէ ու չի կորցրել իր վաղեմությունը, քանզի ժամանակն ի վիճակի չի մեռցնելու, կամ հիշողությունից ջնջելու ազգն ուրացողի անունը որը հավերժ դաջվելու է նրա ճակատին, որ լրացնում է ազգուրացողների բավական մեծ ցանկը…

ԼՌԻ´Ր, ՄԱՐԴ ԱՍՏԾՈ

[Armenian]

Re: Armenian Patriarch Of Turkey Issues Bold Message On Genocide

She agrees with you

Normal mardkants hamar bavakan hesht e hasnel ayt batsahayt yezrakatsutyan:

Imijaylots, lav hotvats er. Usti shnorhakam em vor ays 'lra-takhtaki' vra tsutsadretsir, aysinkn "threadi" vra:

Do you know if his predecessor (Kazanjian) was more hush-hush about Armenian affairs?

Although he would ocassionally make anti-Dashnak comments and speak against the military operations that some Armenian militia units would engage in, Kazanjian was much more subtle and balanced about such manners. However, there is a huge difference between what Kazanjian did as Patriarch and what the 'W-h-o-r-e of Istanbul' is doing today. It is beyond doubt, Mutafoglu is actively and willing working for Ankara. The Turkish community there today is a serious liability for the Armenian nation as a whole. Time to abandon them. Besides, most of them are nothing but Turcophiles anyway.

Most Polsahais have money. Armenia is a stone throw away from Turkey. Go to Yerevan in the summer and see how many so-called Polsahai turists you will find there. I have not seen or heard of any. Generally speaking, Polsahais may feel like they are 'proud Armenians' but they hate Hayastantsis, they hate Dashnakstakans and they hate Hayastan. Its that simple. I'm sure if you looked at my comments objectively you would have to agree.

Nonetheless, the Patriarchate in question has long out lived it's intended purpose. Time to shut it down of move it - to France, Russia, America, anywhere.

Btw, after it is moved they can continue calling it the "Patriarchate of Constantinople," much like what the Kilikian See has done in Lebanon.

[ARK]

Re: Armenian Patriarch Of Turkey Issues Bold Message On Genocide

Paron Armenian hamtsayn em vor polsahayer@ turkeri mech aprelov d’jbakhtabar turkaser en eghel bayts es (http://www.economist.com/displayStor...ory_id=8173275)
hayastantinerin inch anenk vor espes pativ en tanum. srank vrpes hayastani kaghakatsi aveli shat en mer lezun karj pahum.

[Armenian]

Re: Armenian Patriarch Of Turkey Issues Bold Message On Genocide

Paron Armenian hamtsayn em vor polsahayer@ turkeri mech aprelov d’jbakhtabar turkaser en eghel bayts es (http://www.economist.com/displayStor...ory_id=8173275)
hayastantinerin inch anenk vor espes pativ en tanum. srank vrpes hayastani kaghakatsi aveli shat en mer lezun karj pahum.

Indz chi hetakrkrum Hayastanits durs gnatsogh 'zibilneri' vijak@. Akhkat mard@, angordz mard@, anusyal mard@, Bolshevik krtutyun unetsogh mard@, karogh e anel 'ameninch' ir kyankum.

Mer harusd Polsahaier@ inrents Turkakan 'Kaghakatsiyutyamp' yev irents 'Azgayin himnarknerov' mitchazgayin kaghakagan der en khaghum aysor.

Mi khoskov. Turkia gnatsogh Hayastansti 'Porniki' khosker@ ayt kan karevor ban chen im hamar.

Mutafyani nman 'arajnort' mardgants khoskern en miyayn lusvum yev charagordzvum kaghakagan bemeri vra.

[aray]

Re: Armenian Patriarch Of Turkey Issues Bold Message On Genocide

Turkio metch krna ir beran@ pak pahel.

Mi khoskov, yete chikrnar mezi, aysinkn @ndanur Haiutyan, ogtakar linel dogh ir beran@ pak bah e. Yev yete zanazan patjarnerov chikrnar ir beran@ pak pahel, dogh ir pashtonen hrazharvi.

Hamadzayn em qez het akhper jan. Hla tes incha khosum ays anamot turki tsnund@ hetevyal hodvatsum.


Mesrob II: Diaspora deaf to Turkish Armenians

"The ‘Armenian genocide resolution' pending in the US Congress disrupts both the relations between Turkish people and Armenians in Turkey and between Turkey and Armenia," said Patriarch Mesrob II (Mutafyan), the spiritual leader of Turkey's Armenian Orthodox community.



"We had big problems in the past. I especially find the approach of the Ittihat Terakki's (the Committee of Union and Progress) collective punishment of Armenians quite wrong. It wasn't the whole Armenian community who took up arms against the government, but I believe the Turkish Republic should not be accused of what happened then. The diaspora would say that it should be accused as long as there is a denial of what happened," Mesrob II said.

Armenians claim up to 1.5 million of their kinsmen died in a genocide campaign by Ottoman Turks around the time of World War I, but Ankara rejects the charge, saying both Armenians and Turks died in civil strife when the Armenians took up arms for independence in eastern Anatolia, siding with Russian troops that were invading the crumbling Ottoman Empire.

There is currently a non-binding "Armenian genocide resolution" pending at the US Congress. "We are the ones here living with our Turkish friends everyday. The resolution's passage would have a cooling effect on our relations," Mesrob II said, adding that the diaspora doesn't care about Turkish Armenians' sensitivities and that "it's a political issue for them."

Turkish Armenians are the biggest Christian community in Turkey with approximately 70,000 people living in Anatolia. Mesrob II said that since they lack schools of theology, the number of clerics is only 26 and bringing religious services to the community is tough.

For Monday Talk, Mesrob II told Today's Zaman that the Armenian community hasn't been represented in the Turkish Parliament, even though some of them have been interested in politics. The community's attitude toward the Justice and Development Party (AK Party) is generally positive, and the main reason behind this is the "aggressive attitude" of the Republican People's Party (CHP), especially regarding the law of foundations.

As the Turkish-Armenian religious leader, Mesrob II has a different stance from that of some Turkish circles regarding the secularism debates. "I don't think that secularism is under threat in Turkey. Secularism has been so entrenched in the society since the time of Atatürk that I don't think anybody will be able to remove it," he stated.

We've been trying to interview Mesrob II since Today's Zaman was founded on Jan. 16, but due to some unfortunate events -- such as the Jan. 19 assassination of Hrant Dink, editor of the Turkish-Armenian weekly newspaper Agos, we were unable to until now. The Patriarchate closed its doors to the media then after receiving many threats. Nevertheless, the patriarch started to open up recently and discuss the Turkish-Armenian community's problems more.

For Monday Talk, we had a sincere interview with the patriarch, ranging from politics to his personal life, beliefs and hobbies.


Could you talk about your childhood, your neighborhood, your education?
I was born in Istanbul in Tarlabasi on Yogurtçu Faik Street. We had Muslims, xxxs, Greeks and Armenians in the neighborhood. Everybody knew everybody else’s important religious celebrations. We had wonderful days having many celebrations together, especially on holidays. I grew up in the Taksim neighborhood around Talimhane, where Taksim square is. I went to the Esayan Armenian school in Taksim. I continued my education at the Istanbul English High School for Boys. Later I went to the Stuttgart American College in Germany. In the United States, I went to the Memphis State University to study sociology. Then to the Hebrew University in Jerusalem, then to Angelicum University in Rome, Italy and finally got my doctorate at St. Mary’s University in Washington.

How did you benefit from studying sociology?
I was able to understand people better.

Did you decided to study theology then?
No. I decided to study theology later after I had an accident in the United States. I was supposed to die but I survived. I lost my best friend in that accident. After that, I felt like I re-started life and dedicated myself to religion.

Why do you fast during Ramadan?
Otherwise I’d feel guilty at the time of the iftar (the evening fast-breaking meal).

Why would you feel guilty?
If I participate in the iftar with others who fasted all day, not having fasted myself, I feel guilty.

Do you fast throughout the month of Ramadan or just when you are invited for iftar?
Fasting is also a Christian practice, so I do not have any problem fasting throughout the month of Ramadan. It also helps to bring my Turkish friends and me closer together.

Do you have fond memories of Ramadan?
I was in a village called Kiyiköy in Kirklareli in 1974 at the time of Ramadan. Together with the villagers, I would get up for sahur (a small meal eaten before dawn; the final meal before the day’s fast begins). This is a fond memory for me.

What is a typical day for you?
Among the patriarch’s duties is inspection of the churches and attending liturgies at churches. I attend to my appointments.

Do you have hobbies?
I like traveling.

Where do you like to go most?
Jerusalem. I try to go there once a year. In Turkey I like to go along the Bosporus. One of the places I like most is Kiyiköy. I also like Mersin.

Do you watch television?
I usually watch news on TV.

Don’t you watch any of the hundreds of television series?
I watch “Yeseren Düsler” (Revived Dreams).”

Why do you like that series?
It is about real life in a small village where one family tries to domineer over the others. It is a real life situation.

How many patriarchates are there in the world?
In the world there are 23 patriarchs. In the Armenian church, there are four patriarchates, the first one is in Armenia and the others are in Lebanon, Jerusalem and Istanbul.

Are there different levels or are you all equal?
The Catholicosate in Armenia comes first. All others are autonomous. We don’t meddle in each others’ affairs much.

A Muslim leader, Mehmed the Conqueror, founded the Patriarchate in Istanbul in 1461. What is the significance of this?
The founding of the Armenian Patriarchate in Istanbul is unique. It marks the first time in history that a Muslim sultan established a Christian center. It’s quite positive for inter-religious dialogue.

What are the Turkish-Armenian community’s feelings toward the new government?
The community’s attitude toward the AK Party is generally positive. One of the main reasons behind this is CHP’s aggressive attitude, especially regarding the law on foundations. Because of this our community tends to support the AK Party.

Are there Armenians interested in politics, interested in being candidates perhaps?
Yes, there have been a few people.

Would they be interested in becoming independent candidates or be under the umbrella of a party?
Most of them tend to support the AK Party.

If the AK Party had approached them, would they have entered politics?
They might have.

Have there been any Armenian members of Parliament in the history of the republic?
I know one who was a school principal, indeed my principal, at the Esayan school that I went to. Her name was Hermine Kalustyan.

Do you remember what year and from which political party?
I think from the CHP. The year escapes my memory.

What could have changed if there was an Armenian member of Parliament?
First of all we would have been represented. No members of any minority groups -- be it xxxs, Armenians or Greeks -- have been represented in Parliament, even though it is our Parliament too.

Do you think the investigation into the murder of Hrant Dink has been conducted thoroughly?
I’d like the real perpetrators behind this crime to be found. Otherwise justice won’t be served.

Are you worried?
I’m worried about radical nationalist movements. We need to exercise more tolerance in society. The same applies to relations with Armenia; we need academics, young people and artists from both sides to visit each other’s country more.
Prime Minister Recep Tayyip Erdogan has suggested the formation of a committee of historians from both sides plus other countries to study the history of the relations, but has not gotten a response from Armenia.
His suggestion was quite positive. I don’t understand why the Armenian side did not respond well to such a positive approach to study the events of 1915.

You said ‘the events of 1915.’ Do you think there was a genocide?
We had big problems in the past; I find in particular the approach of Ittihat Terakki’s collective punishment of Armenians quite wrong. It wasn’t the whole Armenian community who took up arms against the government, but I believe the Turkish Republic should not be accused of what happened then. The diaspora would say that it should be accused as long as there is a denial of what happened

What do you think of the ‘Armenian genocide resolution’ pending in the US Congress?
It’s quite negative because the Armenian genocide resolution pending in the US Congress disrupts both the relations between Turkish people and Armenians in Turkey and between Turkey and Armenia.

How so?
We are the ones here living with our Turkish friends every day. The resolution’s passage would have a cooling effect on our relations.

Doesn’t the Armenian diaspora in the US think of these sensitivities that you’ve just talked about?
I don’t think they care about our relations here. It’s a political issue for them.

Do they have any contact with you?
No, they don’t.

Do you have any contact with them?
No, I don’t. There was a conference about the genocide issue in Dallas that I was invited to attend and I did go. Armenian-Americans protested my speech.

Why?
I presume that they see my approach to the whole issue as a denial of the genocide. They do not understand the sensitivities involved.

Doesn’t your religious identity mean anything to them?
It seems like it doesn’t.

Would you go to such a meeting again?
I would go again.

So you resist protests...?
I say what I believe is right.

What is the worst scenario if the resolution passes?
Anything can happen. We receive threats every day.

Have you been provided enough protection?
Yes, there are quite a few security personnel around me.

What should Turkey be doing regarding the ‘genocide issue’?
Turkey has been changing in that regard. The issue has been discussed much more. Turkey has been doing what it can do right now.

Should Turkey open the border with Armenia?
I’d like that because the relations of Turkey and Armenia have been held hostage to the issue of genocide.

What else can be done?
Both sides need to improve relations among their people. They should look at the future and not be restricted by history so much.

What can the Turkish government do for the Armenians living in Turkey?
First of all we need schools to be able to have clerics. We have a shortage of clerics. We have to either send people to Armenia or Jerusalem to study theology. There are no schools here. I suggest a faculty of theology in one of the universities in Istanbul. We also need a school of philology here to study the Western Armenian language, which is different from the Eastern Armenian language.

And the issue of foundations?
Yes, our former president vetoed it.

Do you expect the new president to approve it?
I hope he does.

What is the population of the Armenians living in Turkey?
Approximately 70,000 -- the biggest Christian community in Turkey, living in 23 cities in Anatolia. There are only 26 clerics. With so few clerics it’s very difficult to bring religious services to the community. Most of the community, especially in Anatolia, lacks churches and when the clerics visit the community, they have to pray in homes.

You’ve been working to have a faculty of theology in Istanbul, right?
I’ve been working on this issue with the Higher Education Board (YÖK), but it wasn’t possible to move forward until after the elections. I have to follow up on it.

You visited Gen. Yasar Büyükanit recently. Why?
He is the head of the Turkish Army. I mentioned our communities in Anatolia and our desire to visit those people. Without a doubt he assured us that the gendarmerie forces would provide protection during such visits. He was quite open and friendly.

What have been your observations during the election process regarding the secularist-Islamist debate?
I don’t think that secularism is under threat in Turkey. Secularism has been so entrenched in the society since the time of Atatürk that I don’t think anybody will be able to remove it.

Has the issue been discussed in the Armenian community?
Our community has been very secular; they do not mix up religious and civic life at all. Some erroneous reports indicated that I directed the community to vote for the AK Party, but our community would not take directions from me about whom to vote for.

__________________________________________________ _______________
[PROFILE]

Who is Mesrob II?
Mesrob II became the 84th patriarch of Turkey's Armenian Orthodox community in 1998 after Patriarch Karekin II passed away. Mesrob II studied theology in 1979-1982 at the Hebrew University of Jerusalem in Israel. He held several positions in Turkey's churches including bishop, chairman of the Religious Council, patriarchal vicar for Ecumenical Affairs, overseer of the Theological Auditorium, vice-president of the Patriarchal Advisory Council and archbishop. He is the editor-in-chief of the Shoghagat Theological Review. He has academically worked on the "Vanakan Vartabed's Commentary of Davoush on the Book of Job." He is bilingual in Turkish and English and uses classical Armenian, Hebrew, French and Italian in his academic studies.

Link

[Armenian]

Re: Armenian Patriarch Of Turkey Issues Bold Message On Genocide

Armenian Patriarch of Turkey in U.S. On Turkish Propaganda Tour Once Again

By Harut Sassounian
Publisher, The California Courier

This week Mesrob Mutafyan, the Armenian Patriarch of Turkey, is making his second visit to the United States in the past 6 months. During his highly controversial first visit in April, the Patriarch participated in a conference organized by a Turkish group at the Southern Methodist University, in Dallas , Turkey . The conference was titled, "Turkish-Armenian Question: What to do Now?" Despite intensive efforts by various Armenian-American groups to persuade the Patriarch not to speak at that conference, he went ahead with his speaking engagement. All other Armenian invitees, for one reason or another, refused to take part. The concern was that the Turks would use the conference as a ploy to convince the outside world that Armenians and Turks were "reconciling" with each other, and therefore, there was no need to pressure Turkey into genocide recognition.

Archbishop Khajag Barsamian, the Primate of the Armenian Church of America (Eastern Diocese) , was so incensed by the Patriarchs planned participation that he wrote to University officials objecting to its sponsorship of this politically tendentious and one sided "Armenian-Turkish dialogue." The University complied with the Primates request and withdrew its support from the conference. Archbishop Barsamian rightly pointed out that Patriarch Mutafyan "has a very limited ability to freely express his true thoughts and concerns because of oppressive Turkish free-speech laws." The Primate aptly described the Patriarch as "a virtual prisoner of conscience of the Turkish government."

Interestingly, the Patriarch repeated word for word in Dallas what he had said a year earlier during a similar conference held at Erciyes University in Kayseri , Turkey . The April 2006 conference was entitled: "The Art of Living Together in Ottoman Society: The Example of Turkish-Armenian Relations." Patriarch Mutafyan will most probably repeat the same remarks during his talk on September 20, at the Georgetown University in Washington , D.C . The sponsors of both the April and September conferences are affiliated with the Islamic Fethullah Gulen group. To gain an advance insight into what the Patriarch might say this week, here are some excerpts of his previously delivered talks in Kayseri and Dallas which consist of some straight talk mixed with words meant to appease Turkish officials.

"It is certainly not possible to idealize every phase in the history of Ottoman-Armenian relations and to say that Armenians never had any problems. Being Christians, the Armenians of the Ottoman Empire were never first class citizens. And they certainly did suffer discrimination. However, we know that the first acquaintance between Turks and Armenians dates back to at least 1300 years ago…. In this long history of commercial and political interactions between neighbors, there are relatively few instances where we observe exchanges of physical violence," the Patriarch said.

He then went on to say that "especially towards the end of the 19th century there was an increase in tension in relations, whether responsibility for this was due to the Ottoman government, or the German, American, French, British and especially Russian governments, Armenian political parties, or even the Armenian Patriarchs of Istanbul of that period, who discharged their obligations under the surveillance of the Temporal Affairs Council that then consisted of Armenian secularists in Turkey. Even if the various parties were not all equally responsible, it is not a moral approach in view of the painful after-effects for any one of them to deny any accountability in the development of these events, or to place all the responsibility on the other parties."

After several Turkish propagandists delivered their talks at the Dallas conference, the Armenian Patriarch responded by making the following statement outside of his written text: "Did some Armenian political parties promote armed rebellion in the Armenian community? They did. In some areas, did armed Armenian gangs work together with the Russian army? They did. But the Government of the Committee for Union and Progress, being in charge of the country, is chiefly responsible for the painful events that occurred and the great suffering that was endured. If you do not hold the government in charge of the behavior of the country as responsible for that behavior, then whom will you hold responsible? Instead of eliminating in their local areas the armed Armenian factions who were in rebellion, the Government of the Committee for Union and Progress sent all Armenians in the Ottoman Empire on a sort of death march to the Syrian Desert ; it sentenced them to death. Therefore this party is chiefly culpable for the 1915 events."

A day before his Georgetown speech this week, the Armenian Patriarch is invited to participate at the 2 nd Congressional Interfaith and Intercultural Ramadan Iftar Dinner on Capitol Hill, where he will speak along with several other clergymen from various faiths. There has been some speculation as to who arranged for the Armenian Patriarch to come to Washington , D.C. , shortly before the anticipated vote in the House of Representatives on the Armenian Genocide resolution and less than a month before the Pontifical visit of His Holiness Karekin II to the nations capital? Many see the sinister hand of the Turkish government orchestrating the Patriarchs speaking engagements, using the connections of high-powered lobbying firms hired by Ankara .

This writer has repeatedly urged the Armenian Patriarch to stay away from involvement in political matters and instead tend to the spiritual needs of his flock. He must at all cost resist the pressures exerted upon him by Turkish officials, in order not to allow them to use him as a propaganda tool serving Turkey s denialist agenda. In the meantime, Armenian religious and secular leaders have an obligation to point out that the Patriarch does not speak for the Armenian Church and that his political statements are made under Turkish pressure and do not reflect his true views on the Armenian Genocide.