Opinions of a Turk, or two (hi from Turkey)

[TomServo]

Sure you know because we are Muslims and you know we conquered Europe once upon a time. So you can't expect sympathy from Europeans and others. Muslim world and asia respect Turkiye. We have wealthy nice lands and living on our own. But you poor armenian you always be anothers puppet. Why don't you go and live in armenia? So sad...

If you'd leave Istanbul, and go to the Turkish villages in Asia (read: NOT Europe), you might be surprised at what you'd see.

[Anonymouse]

Sure you know because we are Muslims and you know we conquered Europe once upon a time. So you can't expect sympathy from Europeans and others. Muslim world and asia respect Turkiye. We have wealthy nice lands and living on our own. But you poor armenian you always be anothers puppet. Why don't you go and live in armenia? So sad...

Well no one really liked bands of Turkish pastoralists coming and stealing their land, pillaging their towns, raping their women. I'm sure that's something to be proud of. It is no wonder why Victor Hugo exclaimed, "In order to destroy the written word, a torch and a Turk are sufficient"

[TomServo]

Yeah, a simple Google search for the terms "Turk, bloodthirsty" gets a countless number of results. And it's not only genocide pages, either.

[Crimson Glow]

Once again, way to completely ignore the points I raised, as Turks usually do when it comes to this subject. You know, in spite of your less then thought provoking posts, I'm still trying to engage in a discussion/debate over here, and you're busy spitting out pre-programmed propaganda. You remind me quite a bit of a salesperson, where if you ask them something outside of what they've been taught to deal with, they'll pause, not knowing what to say, and then resort back to one of their standard lines, which have nothing to do with the customer's question/comment. Regardless, I will continue with my style....

We have archives but you say they are corrupted, we have local historians but you say they are Turks, we have historians from other nations but you say they aren't acceptable. So I’m telling you to go to French and Russian archives ok?

First of all, I don't live around ANY Armenians, and I mean ANY. 99% of the people I encounter where I live have never even HEARD of Armenians, so I certainly haven't gathered my opinions based off of "word of mouth" from other Diaspora Armenians. Secondly, when I did my research, I left out ALL Armenian sources for my info, because I KNEW there's a possibility of exaggerations, misinformation, propaganda, etc. Lastly, I wanted to hear/read/see every aspect of the Turkish point of view, to fully understand why they're so vehement about denouncing genocide claims. In fact, it even had me wondering if maybe there was something to their denial, since they're so avid about it.

In spite of all these filters/methods to eliminate bias, after sifting through a dizzying array of German archives (remember your allies? The people who, after reading everything they witnessed/OKed, I consider as guilty as the Ottoman Empire?), and yes, your beloved French and Russian archives too, and reading eye witness accounts, documents, telegrams, memos, etc from Swedes, Germans, Norwegians, Turks, Americans, etc, there are 2 things that have stuck out in my mind to this day:

1. In all the Turkish denials I came across, there is one consistent pattern: Inconsistency. For example, some Turks were claiming 1.5 million Armenians couldn't have been killed, because there were only 300,000 living there. Others say that WE killed 500,000 Turks. And yet others claim that the deportations went off without a hitch, and that all survived save for a handful. These are just a few of the examples, but you can already see the contradictions. If there were only 300,000 Armenians living there, how on EARTH did they kill 500,000 Turks?? Within the almighty Ottoman Empire, no less! If the Turk claims there were higher population numbers, then how can he/they claim there weren't enough Armenians present to make 1+ million deaths possible? If the deportations went off without a hitch, where the hell did those people go? Evaporated? I actually TRIED making sense of the Turkish stance. Unfortunately, you guys need to work together to make one official story in order to understand it.

2. I found this to be the most important and telling info/evidence in all my research: The number of TURKISH witnesses, as well as TURKISH historians/citizens/studiers/etc that felt it was indeed a genocide. To read some of the stories of how Turkish hid their Armenian friends just before their villages were raided, how some helped them plot out an escape route, how many lied and said Armenian kids were there own......it was truly unbelievable. And the number of Turkish citizens appauled by the doings of their government....didn't seem to matter what their own people wanted. But very interesting/intriguing info, nonetheless.

You will notice and understand one day what happened during WWI. If you take your case to international law suit then we will see what happen. And then you won't have anything in your hands. I'm so sad for you.

Oh I've noticed and understood what happened during WWI a long time ago. See, here in America, that's actually required knowledge in high school and most colleges. You can't NOT learn about it, and in college especially, it erupts quite a bit of conversation (way above and beyond the standard course syllabus). In America, you don't get thrown in jail for questioning government policy (as you would for using the word Genocide in relation to the "Armenian massacres" in Turkey). The question becomes, when will YOU learn to take the blinders off, and look at all aspects of what happened? Are you willing to do what I've done in your research? Are you willing to eliminate ALL Turkish sources when trying to uncover the truth? Until then, you really have nothing useful to say/add to this conversation.

As far as the international law suit thing, I haven't looked into that, and don't know what's required/how one goes about it, etc, so I'm not going to comment on that. But I highly doubt that 15 nations, and 26 American States would have acknowledged a genocide if we didn't "have anything in our hands". There wouldn't be a debate about the issue at all if we didn't have substantial evidence.

Quite frankly, I've had enough of typing out an analysis of your opinion, only to have your rebuttal consist of the same, status quo line, instead of giving examples/times/dates/specifics/etc to your side. Much like a criminal being interrogated by a police officer, vehemently denying the crime, as the relentless attack continues, his story begins to crumble, as all falsehoods do under heavy scrutiny. The collapse is inevitable. Such is your case, and such is the reason we relentlessly attack the Turkish stance on this subject. Your argument has been shredded like Mini Wheats.

[CatWoman]

You guys... why do you bother?

All their knowledge about the genocide basically comes from www.tallarmeniantale.com ... Their history class porbably consisted of computer lab sessions on how to read tallarmeniantale.com! I asked him to name some non-turkish historians who deny the genocide.... and he still hasn't come up with their names.

So you guys should just go sleep instead!

[TomServo]

Excellent post, Crimson. But do you really think that this Robo-Turk is going to read through all that?

[Crimson Glow]

Excellent post, Crimson. But do you really think that this Robo-Turk is going to read through all that?

One can hope, but I'm not holding my breath. I have a greater agenda in mind for my posts the last couple days on this subject, regardless. Something the recent onslaught of Turks "inquiring" about the genocide sparked. I'll make a seperate post about it when I have more time. 3 AM is quickly approaching. =|

[thinktwice]

Turks are one of the biggest and great nation all over the world and you know Ottoman Empire was one of the great empire of all the time and lived for 800 years. And you come up with stealing their land, pillaging their towns, raping their women. Come on don't make me laugh. I recommend you to read empire's history. With your lack of knowledge about Turk's history i'm not taking you serious.

[TomServo]

Turks are one of the biggest and great nation all over the world and you know Ottoman Empire was one of the great empire of all the time and lived for 800 years. And you come up with stealing their land, pillaging their towns, raping their women. Come on don't make me laugh. I recommend you to read empire's history. With your lack of knowledge about Turk's history i'm not taking you serious.

You're joking, right? I think even Mustafa Kemal would disagree with you here.

[Anonymouse]

Turks are one of the biggest and great nation all over the world and you know Ottoman Empire was one of the great empire of all the time and lived for 800 years. And you come up with stealing their land, pillaging their towns, raping their women. Come on don't make me laugh. I recommend you to read empire's history. With your lack of knowledge about Turk's history i'm not taking you serious.

I wonder in that 800 years how many million Christian babies were stolen and put into the Jannissaries?