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Originally posted by TurKOnE
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I may have different opinions concerning Ataturk as most Armenians - but I understand fully why Armenians despise Ataturk - as he put the finishing touches on our Genocide (well actually it is continuing under the current Republic using a pattern implemented by Ataturk and Ionuo). But even if I totally disagree with what some might say concenrning Ataturk - why should I leap to his defense when all you slobbering Turks are here - and are here defaming us and our people. Fight your own battles - its not my place to defend your gods! -
Hi Winoman,
We... Well I, do acknowledge that Armenians were killed by Turks in large numbers, but from my point of view it cannot be called a "genocide." Logically speaking, if Turks wanted to wipe you out, I am sure that we could have done that during the 700-year life time of a huge and strong Turkish empire. But no! Why? Because Turks never hate human beings, we don't have any reason to hate. You make it sound like if we're a bunch of psychos who got paranoid with the results of WW1 and started to kill without a logical action-reaction event. If there's smoke, then there has to be a fire. The Turkish government has opened its archives and in front of the international community, asked the Armenian government to open its own historical arhives so that the situation can be researched with all the facts by professional historians. But as far as I know, the Armenian government declined because either there's something wrong, or they do not have archives.Comment
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and how do you explain your rude and disrespectful behavior in this forum. You've said some horrible things since you've been here.Originally posted by DneirfrutComment
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Koylu,Originally posted by Dneirfrut
Apparently reasoning is not your forte! The same can be said about the Jews who lived in Germany for many centuries. Two individuals/groups may live in the vicinity of each other - peacefully or not - for a long time: does that exclude the act of crime or why it did not happen before the moment it actually happened?
I promised myself to respect the first *urk that is of acceptable intelligence; that it may never happen! LOL!
All of your neighbors agree on your cruel and barbarian nature - also from North Africa to Austria and Poland. The Europeans i.e. the population look down at you! Every culture has something negative to say about the hideous parasites that you are and have always been!Originally posted by Dneirfrut
Stop smoking! LOL!
So argues the uneducated macho jerk who oppresses his partner: "she misbehaved."Originally posted by Dneirfrut
I guess that jurks are no different from jerks! LOL!
We were on our lands and we had all the rights to demand your immediate departure, looters! That is struggling for freedom and we shall continue!
First of all, it is known that the Ottoman archives have been purged and not necessarily of documents related to the Armenians: because of your slyness, lack of funds and lack of something called "civilization and respect of Memory!" Even *urks have decried it!Originally posted by Dneirfrut
Second of all, it is known that it is a masquerade. Many researchers have been denied access in the past and will be denied access in the future. Nobody believes in your masquerade!
Third of all, how can *urks pretend to be "open minded" when asserting the Armenian Genocide is legally a punishable crime! What a masquerade!
Most of all, plenty and enough information was already available to the public: opening the *urkish archives will not bring any new information. The information is already "integrated."
The Armenian Government "declined" - or should I say ignored and disregarded - the masquerade because of the above mentioned reasons!What if I find someone else when looking for you? My soul shivers as the idea invades my mind.Comment
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Awesome Siamanto. It feels good to know there are equal minded and strong Armenians among ourselves.Comment
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Exerpt from: The Splendid Blond Beast - Christopher Simpson
Friedrich Nietzsche called the aristocratic predators who write society's laws "the splendid blond beast" precisely because they so often behave as though they are beyond the reach of elementary morality.
Today genocide-the deliberate destruction of a racial, cultural, or political group-is the paramount example of the institutionalized and sanctioned violence of which Nietzsche spoke.
The Splendid Blond Beast examines how the social mechanisms of genocide often encourage tacit international cooperation in the escape from justice of those who perpetrated the crime...
... Hitler was well aware of Turkey's genocide of Armenians and of the failure of the international community to respond adequately to it. As early as June 1931, Hitler commented in an interview that the "extermination of the Armenians" had led him to "the conclusion that masses of men are mere biological plasticine" over which Aryans would eventually triumph. He returned to this theme in a formal talk to his commanding generals on the eve of their invasion of Poland in 1939: "Our strength is in our quickness and our brutality," he exclaimed. "Genghis Khan had millions of women and children killed by his own will and with a gay heart. History sees only in him a great state builder.... Thus for the time being I have sent to the East . . . my Death's Head Units with the order to kill without pity or mercy all men, women, and children of the Polish race or language. Only in such a way will we win the vital space that we need. Who still talks nowadays of the extermination of the Armenians?" On at least three other occasions, Hitler pointed to the brutality of Turkey's regime and its willingness to strike without mercy as a worthy model for his own government.
It was the Turkish government's attempted genocide of that country's large Armenian population that had led to the demand for a clear international ban on crimes against humanity. Turkey was the center of the Ottoman Empire, and the Armenians were a large minority group whose ancestral home clustered around Mount Ararat in eastern Turkey. During the last decades of the nineteenth century, Turkish religious extremists and security forces seeking racial and religious purity in Turkey had repeatedly instigated pogroms, murdering tens of thousands Armenians. One result was that militant Armenians took up arms and began pressing for political independence.
Shortly before World War I, a secretive and disciplined cabal of young Turkish military officers known as the Ittihad took power in Turkey and brought the country into an alliance with Germany. These were the original "Young Turks," and their capacity for cruelty and violence still reverberates in that phrase today.
In the first months of World War I the Young Turks instigated a national effort to exterminate the Armenian population under the guise of modernization, suppressing domestic dissent, and securing Turkey's borders. The Ittihad bent the power of the Turkish state to their purpose. Beginning in late 1914 and accelerating over the next three years, the Turkish government rounded up Armenian men for forced labor, worked many to death building a trans-Turkish railway for German business interests, then shot the survivors. The government then secretly ordered mass executions of Armenian intellectuals and political leaders in the spring of 1915. The state also uprooted Armenian women and children from their homes and drove them into vast resettlement camps that were barren of supplies or shelter. When the camps became full, the Turks expelled the people into the deserts of what is today Syria and Iraq. Hundreds of thousands of Armenians died from shootings, starvation, exposure, and disease.
The state declared that all the property of deported Armenian families had been "abandoned," then confiscated it and used it to reward Ittihad party activists and others who participated in the extermination process. Many Turks prospered by liquidating Armenians' businesses, stealing their stocks, and seizing Armenian farms and real estate.
The genocide was particularly cruel to Armenian women and girls, who became the objects of a pervasive, tacitly sanctioned campaign of rape. Turkish police encouraged gangs of thugs to prey upon the deportees as a means of humiliating and destroying these women. Meanwhile, some Armenian girls were able to escape deportation by announcing a religious conversion to Islam, and in this way some Turkish men secured Armenian concubines and house slaves.
Surviving Turkish, German, and U.S. documents establish that the Ittihad expected to strike quickly, to keep the deportations and massacres secret, and to exterminate the Armenians as a race before the outside world learned of the atrocities. The Ittihad also persecuted substantial numbers of Greeks, Jews, and other minority groups, in some cases deporting them along with the Armenians. The Turkish government made a careful effort to explain away leaks that appeared in the press as nothing more than exaggerated accounts of the usual casualties of war.
... the events of the Armenian Genocide and of the Holocaust ... reveal a basic dynamic in the relationship of great powers to mass crimes.
This structure for international law was put to the test during World War I, and failed. Despite some amelioration of the conditions for soldiers on the battlefield, the new framework of law did not confront or contain one of the signal crimes of the day: the Turkish Ittihod government's destruction of some one million Armenians. Nor did existing international law achieve justice for the Armenians when the killing was over, in part because Britain, France, and the United States saw greater advantage in cooperating with Turkey in a new division of Middle Eastern oil than they did in bringing Ittihad criminals to justice.
The failure to do justice in the Armenian Genocide can be traced in important part to the overlapping, interlocking dynamics of economics, international law, and mass murder. The more predatory aspects of international law dovetailed well with the destructive social patterns of the Turkish killing. The law proved to be incapable of prosecuting genocide without drawing more "conventional" aspects of colonialism, national development, and international trade into the dock as crimes as well.
The legal and economic precedents set in the wake of World War I had considerable impact on the course of the Holocaust during World War II, just as the more widely understood political precedents did. Hitler himself repeatedly raised the international community's failure to do justice in the wake of the Armenian Genocide to explain and justify his own racial theories, and the Germans' pattern of "learning through doing" genocide was similar in important respects to that of the Turks. While the two crimes were different in important respects, they both were led by ideologically driven, authoritarian political parties that had come to power in the midst of a deep social crisis. Both the Ittihad and the Nazis-each originally a marginal political party-managed to perpetrate genocide by enlisting the established institutions of conventional life-the national courts, commercial structures, scholarly community, and so on-in the tasks of mass persecution and eventually mass murder. In both cases, the ruling party achieved its genocidal aims in part by offering economic incentives for persecution, the most basic of which were the opportunity to share in the spoils of deported people and the ability to transfer the costs of economic crisis onto the shoulders of the despised group.Comment
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We need to clone ourselves!Originally posted by Thai-Samurai
We'll get there!What if I find someone else when looking for you? My soul shivers as the idea invades my mind.Comment
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