Announcement

Collapse

Forum Rules (Everyone Must Read!!!)

1] What you CAN NOT post.

You agree, through your use of this service, that you will not use this forum to post any material which is:
- abusive
- vulgar
- hateful
- harassing
- personal attacks
- obscene

You also may not:
- post images that are too large (max is 500*500px)
- post any copyrighted material unless the copyright is owned by you or cited properly.
- post in UPPER CASE, which is considered yelling
- post messages which insult the Armenians, Armenian culture, traditions, etc
- post racist or other intentionally insensitive material that insults or attacks another culture (including Turks)

The Ankap thread is excluded from the strict rules because that place is more relaxed and you can vent and engage in light insults and humor. Notice it's not a blank ticket, but just a place to vent. If you go into the Ankap thread, you enter at your own risk of being clowned on.
What you PROBABLY SHOULD NOT post...
Do not post information that you will regret putting out in public. This site comes up on Google, is cached, and all of that, so be aware of that as you post. Do not ask the staff to go through and delete things that you regret making available on the web for all to see because we will not do it. Think before you post!


2] Use descriptive subject lines & research your post. This means use the SEARCH.

This reduces the chances of double-posting and it also makes it easier for people to see what they do/don't want to read. Using the search function will identify existing threads on the topic so we do not have multiple threads on the same topic.

3] Keep the focus.

Each forum has a focus on a certain topic. Questions outside the scope of a certain forum will either be moved to the appropriate forum, closed, or simply be deleted. Please post your topic in the most appropriate forum. Users that keep doing this will be warned, then banned.

4] Behave as you would in a public location.

This forum is no different than a public place. Behave yourself and act like a decent human being (i.e. be respectful). If you're unable to do so, you're not welcome here and will be made to leave.

5] Respect the authority of moderators/admins.

Public discussions of moderator/admin actions are not allowed on the forum. It is also prohibited to protest moderator actions in titles, avatars, and signatures. If you don't like something that a moderator did, PM or email the moderator and try your best to resolve the problem or difference in private.

6] Promotion of sites or products is not permitted.

Advertisements are not allowed in this venue. No blatant advertising or solicitations of or for business is prohibited.
This includes, but not limited to, personal resumes and links to products or
services with which the poster is affiliated, whether or not a fee is charged
for the product or service. Spamming, in which a user posts the same message repeatedly, is also prohibited.

7] We retain the right to remove any posts and/or Members for any reason, without prior notice.


- PLEASE READ -

Members are welcome to read posts and though we encourage your active participation in the forum, it is not required. If you do participate by posting, however, we expect that on the whole you contribute something to the forum. This means that the bulk of your posts should not be in "fun" threads (e.g. Ankap, Keep & Kill, This or That, etc.). Further, while occasionally it is appropriate to simply voice your agreement or approval, not all of your posts should be of this variety: "LOL Member213!" "I agree."
If it is evident that a member is simply posting for the sake of posting, they will be removed.


8] These Rules & Guidelines may be amended at any time. (last update September 17, 2009)

If you believe an individual is repeatedly breaking the rules, please report to admin/moderator.
See more
See less

A Turk's eloquent call for Genocide recognition

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • A Turk's eloquent call for Genocide recognition

    Genocide...
    By Ahmet Altan
    May 9, 2005



    I would like to ask a very simple, ordinary question.

    Would you wish to be an Armenian in 1915?

    No, you wouldn't.

    Because now you know you would have been killed.

    Please stop arguing about the number of murdered or the denials or the attempts to replace pain with statistics.

    No one is denying that Armenians were murdered, right?

    It may be 300,000, or 500,000, or 1.5 million.

    I don't know which number is the truth, or whether anyone knows the true number accurately.

    What I do know is the existence of the death and pain beyond these numbers.

    I am also aware how we forget that we are talking about human beings when we are passionately debating the numbers.

    Those numbers cannot describe the murdered babies, women, the elderly, the teenage boys and girls.

    If we leave the numbers aside, and if we allow ourselves to hear the story of only one of these murders, I am sure that even those of us who get enraged when they hear the words "Armenian Genocide" will feel the pain, will have tears in their eyes.

    Because they will realize that we are talking about human beings.

    When we hear about a baby pulled from a mother's hands to be dashed on the rocks, or a youth shot to death beside a hill, or an old woman throttled by her slender neck, even the hard-hearted among us will be ashamed to say, "Yes, but these people killed the Turks."

    Most of these people did not kill anyone.

    These people became the innocent victims of a crazed government powered by murder, pitiless but also totally incompetent in governing.

    This bloody insanity was a barbarism, not something for us to take pride in or be part of.

    This was a slaughter that we should be ashamed of, and, if possible, something that we can sympathize with and share the pain.

    I understand that the word "genocide" has a damningly critical meaning, based on the relentless insistence of the Armenians' "Accept the Genocide" argument, or the Turks' "No, it was not a genocide" counterargument, even though the Turks accept the death of hundreds of thousands of Armenians.

    And yet, this word is not that important for me, even though it has significance in politics and diplomacy.

    What is more important for me is the fact that many innocent people were killed so barbarically.

    When I see the shadow of this bloody event on the present world, I see a greater injustice done to the Armenians.

    Our crime today is not to allow the present Armenians even to grieve for their cruelly killed relatives and parents.

    Which Armenian living in Turkey today can openly grieve and commemorate a murdered grandmother, grandfather or uncle?

    I have nothing in common with the terrible sin of the past Ittihadists, but the sin of not allowing grief for the dead belongs to all of us today.

    Do you really want to commit this sin?

    Is there anyone among us who would not shed tears for a family attacked at home in the middle of the night, or for a little girl left all alone in the desert during the nightmare called "deportation," or for a white-bearded grandfather shot?

    Whether you call it genocide or not, hundreds of thousands of human beings were murdered.

    Hundreds of thousands of lives snuffed out.

    The fact that some Armenian gangs murdered some Turks cannot be an excuse to mask the truth that hundreds of thousands of Armenians were murdered.

    A human being of conscience is capable of grieving for the Armenians, as well as the Turks, as well as the Kurds.

    We all should.

    Babies died; women and old people died.

    They died in pain, tormented, terrified.

    Is it really so important what religion or race these murdered people had?

    Even in these terrifying times there were Turks who risked their lives trying to rescue Armenian children.

    We are the children of these rescuers, as well as the children of the murderers.

    Instead of justifying and arguing on behalf of the murderers, why don't we praise and defend the rescuers' compassion, honesty, and courage?

    There are no more victims left to be rescued today, but there is a grief, a pain, to be shared and supported.

    What's the use of a bloody, warmongering dance around a deep pain?

    Forget the numbers, forget the Armenians, forget the Turks, just think of the babies, teenagers, and old people with necks broken, bellies slashed, bodies mutilated. Think about these people, one by one.

    If nothing moves in you when you hear a baby wail as her mother is murdered, I have nothing to say to you.

    Then add my name to the list of "traitors."

    Because I am ready to share the grief and pain with the Armenians.

    Because I still believe there is something yet to be rescued from all these meaningless and pitiless arguments, and that something is called "humanity."




    Soykirim...

    Çok basit ve siradan bir soru sormak istiyorum.

    1915 yilinda bir Ermeni olmak ister miydiniz?

    Istemezdiniz.

    Çünkü öldürüleceginizi biliyorsunuz simdi.

    Öldürülenlerin kaç kisi oldugunu iddialarla ve inkarlarla tartisip,
    yasanan bütün acilari rakamlara indirgemeyi bir yana birakin.

    Ermenilerin öldürüldügünü reddeden kimse yok, degil mi?

    Üç yüz bin kisi, bes yüz bin kisi, bir milyon kisi ya da bir buçuk milyon
    kisi.

    Rakamlarin hangisinin tam gerçegi gösterdigini bilmiyorum, kesin rakami
    bilen biri var mi ondan da emin degilim.

    Bildigim, bu rakamlarin arkasinda insanlarin, ölümlerin ve acilarin
    oldugu.

    Rakamlari sehvetle tartisirken aslinda insanlardan bahsetmekte oldugumuzu
    unuttugumuzun farkindayim yalnizca.

    O rakamlar öldürülen bebekleri, kadinlari, yaslilari, delikanlilari, genç
    kizlari anlatmiyor bize.

    Eger bu büyük rakamlari bir kenara birakip öldürülen insanlardan yalnizca
    bir tanesini

    n hikayesinin bize anlatilmasina izin versek, bugün "Ermeni soykirimi"
    lafini duyunca öfkeden çildiranlarin bile içlerinin aciyacagina,
    gözlerinin yasaracagina eminim.

    Çünkü o zaman insanlardan söz edilmekte oldugunu farkedecekler.

    Annesinin kucagindan kopartilip taslara çarpilarak öldürülen bir bebegi,
    bir dagin yamacinda kursuna dizilen delikanliyi, ince boynu sikilarak
    bogulan bir yasli kadini bize anlattiklarinda "onlar da Türkleri
    öldürmüslerdi" demekten en tas kalplilerimiz bile utanir.

    Onlarin çogu kimseyi öldürmemisti.

    Iktidarlarini cinayetlere yaslamis, insafsiz oldugu kadar beceriksiz bir
    yönetimin tutuldugu bir cinnetin kurbani oldular onlar.

    Bu kanli cinnet ne övünebilecegimiz ne paylasabilecegimiz bir vahset.

    Bu, utanacagimiz ve mümkünse acisini paylasacagimiz bir katliam.

    Ermenilerin, atalarinin yasadigi dramlari bile neredeyse bir kenara
    birakarak "soykirim oldugunu kabul edin" diye tutturmalarindan, Türklerin
    de yüz binlerce insanin ölümünü kabul ederken bile "hayir, asla soykirim
    degildi" diye diretmesinden bu "soykirim" sözcügünün lanetli bir önemi
    oldugunu seziyorum.

    Ama gene de, bu sözcük politikada ve diplomaside nasil bir önem tasirsa
    tasisin benim için büyük bir önem tasimiyor.

    Masum insanlarin vahsice öldürülmüs oldugu gerçegi, bu gerçegin adindan
    daha önemli benim için.

    Bu büyük dramin günümüze düsen gölgesine baktigimda ise Ermenilere
    yapilan bir baska büyük haksizligi görüyorum.

    Yakinlarini zalimce cinayetlere kurban vermis olanlarin bugün bu aci için
    yas tutmalarina izin vermemek bizim suçumuz.

    Bugün Türkiye'de hangi Ermeni öldürülen büyükannesi, dedesi, amcasi için
    açikça yas tutabilir?

    Ittihatçilarin isledigi korkunç günahla bir ortakligim yok ama yas
    tutmalarina bile izin verilmemesinin günahi bugün hepimize ait.

    Bu günahi islemek istiyor musunuz gerçekten?

    Aranizda bir geceyarisi evi basilan bir ailenin öldürülmesine, annesini
    kaybeden küçük bir çocugun tehcir denilen o mahserde yapayalniz
    kalmasina,
    ak sakalli bir Ermeni dedesinin vurulmasina göz yasi dökmeyecek kimse var
    mi?

    Adina ister soykirim deyin ister demeyin, yüz binlerce insan öldürüldü.

    Yüz binlerce hayat söndü.

    Ermeni çetelerin de Türkleri öldürmüs olmasi Ermenilerin öldürülmüs
    oldugu gerçegini gözlerden saklayacak bir mazeret olmamali bence.

    Insan vicdani öldürülen herkes için, Ermeniler için, Türkler için,
    Kürtler için yas tutabilir.

    Bana sorarsaniz tutmalidir da.

    Bebekler öldü, kadinlar, yaslilar öldü.

    Aci çekerek, aglayarak, dehsete düserek öldüler.

    Öldürülenlerin irklari ve dinleri gerçekten o kadar önemli mi sizin için?

    O korkunç zamanlarda bile Ermeni çocuklarini kurtarmaya çalisan, bunun
    için kendi hayatini tehlikeye atan Türkler vardi.

    Biz, öldürenlerin çocuklari oldugumuz kadar kurtarmaya çalisanlarin da
    çocuklariyiz.

    Öldürenlerin vahsetine sahip çikmak yerine kurtaranlarin merhametine,
    dürüstlügüne, cesaretine neden sahip çikmayalim?

    Bugün kurtarilacak kurbanlar yok ama kurtarilacak, sahip çikilacak,
    desteklenecek bir yas var.

    Agir bir yasin çevresinde kanli bir totem dansina dalmanin nasil bir
    yarari olacagini düsünüyorsunuz?

    Rakamlari unutun, Ermenileri unutun, Türkleri unutun, boyunlari kirilan,
    karinlari desilen, vücutlari parçalanan bebekleri, gençleri, kadinlari
    yaslilari düsünün yalnizca.

    Bütün o insanlari tek tek düsünün.

    Içinizde en küçük bir kipirti bile olmuyorsa, annesi öldürülürken aglayan
    bir bebegi düsündügünüzde gözünüzde bir dirhem gözyasi belirmiyorsa, size
    söylenecek bir sözüm yok.

    O zaman benim adimi "hainlerin" arasina yazin.

    Çünkü ben öldürülen onca insanin yasini Ermenilerle birlikte tutmaya
    hazirim.

    Bütün bu acimasiz ve anlamsiz tartismalarin ortasinda hala kurtarilacak
    bir sey olduguna ve ona da "insanlik" dendigine inaniyorum çünkü.

    9 Mayis 2005, Pazartesi

  • #2
    This is exactly no genocide recognition!

    Armenians' argument is that it was a genocide intending to remove a race...

    Turks' official argument is that it was a reciprocal murders or massacres in war times...

    Altan is accepting murder of innocent armenians...Yes this is true...But,the description of genocide is not limited to "massacre or murder of innocent people".If it was so,the history would be one that full of "genocides".In particular,those commited by "Britain,France,The USA,Italy,Spian,Portuguese and Dutch... " While they were treating other races like "animals"... Ottoman lands were a kind of shelter for many races.But,what did this races then?

    They collaborated with these "colonial powers to end the existence of the Ottoman Empires.And,you -that ottomans had seen the most loyal to the empire ,that had occupying many positions (even ...as being viziers) in the Palace- did what.... other than trachery in the most hard-times of the Ottomans... You were used like a puppet by our foes... And,you were brushed aside by them... Now,the blame is on us! No,is not also on you,but only on "Empires acknowledging that they had used "insiders" and "instigated nationalist instincts... Open your eyes for the blame... you are loving the ones that caused your misseries... (please don't say ridiculuous things like.... "we were innocent and good mans...We had no links with "colonialists"... We did anything against Ottamans other than being loyalist... But,suddenly,we were massacred!)

    If armenians asked us to accept misery and pains of armenians,we could accept this.But,you,armenians, are coming up and dictating us that you commited the crime of genocide...

    The history of human beings is full of massacres and pains.Hundreds of thousands of innocent Algerians were butchered by France that you love most! Dou you know the number of massacred innocent Polish people!Dou you know the missery of the deported races that were reallocated by Stalin!

    And,on the other hand,Koizumi or all PM's acknowledges the missery,massacre,murder of a great numbers of Koreans and Chinese... Is this a confession for "genocide"?

    Comment


    • #3
      Sadi - your contentions are false and your hysteria on this matter is troubling. Open you mind and heart and understand what happened - at least try...

      Comment


      • #4
        Turkish author works to undo his country’s position on genocide
        ________________________________________
        This week Armenian writers hosted a Turkish author and human rights activist, Dogan Aqhanla, who was exiled from his own country for not denying the Armenian genocide.

        “I was condemned by the Turkish authorities for condemning and recognizing the genocide. I spent the years of 1985-1987 in Istanbul’s jail as a political prisoner together with my wife and newborn child,” says Aqhanla.


        Aqhanla: “We can not live in peace with our criminal past”
        He is one of a few intellectuals of his time who doesn’t turn a blind eye to the historical facts and speaks openly about it, putting to shame the Turkish intelligentsia.

        Aqhanla says: “Turkey’s whole intelligentsia is now in shame for distorting the historical reality and not recognizing the Armenian Genocide. There is only one mention about the genocide in modern Turkish literature and the author is Nazim Hikmet. I should say that recently an opera piece was produced on the basis of that work, but the part (about genocide) was withdrawn.”

        According to the Turkish writer, his country’s policy of negating and distorting the facts turns Turkey into a criminal state today. One cannot say that the generations born after the Second World War are personally responsible, however the same generations must be ready to answer the question of how they view the crimes committed by their ancestors.

        “I am here today to declare that I assume historical responsibility. Recognition for me is not only a moral but also political and public matter, because as German Bernhard Schlink says: “The one who lives in peace with the criminal also becomes responsible,” he says.

        In May 1998, Aqhanla lost his Turkish citizenship because of his political views and his position on the Genocide. Since 2001 he has been a citizen of Germany and lives in Cologne and from time to time contributes to a Turkish-language newspaper. In 1998-99, Istanbul’s Belge Publishing House published the writer’s “Seas that Disappeared” trilogy in Turkish. His latest book “The Judges of the Doomsday” touches upon the subject of the genocide committed against Armenians.

        His sixth “Dialogue, Alienation and Memory” book will be published in Turkey in May. The ending of the book takes place in Tsitsernakaberd (the Genocide Monument in Yerevan).

        He writes: “If I hadn’t come to Germany, most probably I would not become a writer and would not write a book that ends in Yerevan, near the monument to the memory of the Genocide victims. And I wouldn’t have found the courage and strength to stand here today in front of Mount Ararat and speak.

        “I thank you from the bottom of my heart for allowing me to participate in the commemoration of the Genocide victims on the 90th anniversary. I am grateful to you also for allowing me, a man representing a society that committed crimes, to remember and pay homage to the memory of every victim and to ponder about the disgrace and dishonor of my nation.”

        Aqhanla says that his struggle is against the policy of negation assumed by Turkey and for the recognition of the genocide committed against Armenians. He wants to feel again that the country where he was born is his country.

        Aqhanla works for an organization that has set out to alter the mentality of the rising generation of Turks in Germany.

        “Last year we took a group of young German-based Turks to the street in Berlin where Soghomon Tehlerian killed Taleat pasha. We worked with them for three days. There were also five young people from Turkey in the group. In that very street those who came from Turkey started to debate, saying that there was no such thing. But the German-Turks countered, saying that the whole world knows about it,” Aqhanla says.

        In the end, two of the five young people changed their position upon return to Turkey. One of them organized a collection of signatures to condemn the Armenian genocide. The other changed the topic of his doctoral thesis, choosing the 1915 Armenian Genocide. The Turkish writer considers this to be their achievement.

        “We took the young people to the German archives, which are open to everyone. We studied Armenian case N183 that indisputably presents Germany’s real participation in the genocide on the state level. I also feel ashamed for Germany, which once took part in the crime and hasn’t admitted and condemned it to date,” he says.

        Aqhanla says he dreams of a day when Turkey will consider “recognition” to be the beginning of the re-evaluation of its past before 2015. And he dreams of one and a half million pomegranate trees to be planted in Turkey in memory of each victim.

        “I dream that every Armenian who lost his or her ancestor during the years of the genocide will return and find a secure place in the country that is called Turkey today. I hope that my dreams will come true. If it is fulfilled, and that must be fulfilled, at that time I will apply for Turkish citizenship and will say: I am yours. And I am here again.”

        Comment


        • #5
          I would like to recommend that anyone interested in an impartial first hand look at this issue seek out and reed Rafael de Nogales book: Four Years Beneath the Crescent. De Nogalas was a Venezulan Army officer who served under the Ottomans. He directed the seige of Van and has many interesting observations of this battle and he travelled throghout Southeastern Anatolia and Syria at the Height of the Genocide and was a close confidant of the various regional govenors, CUP men and Army officers who perpetuated these crimes. Here are some outakes and further commentary on my part:

          Nogales documents how Djevded bey killed 50,000 Armenians in a fortnight in Mush (p 117) and he documents how Enver's brother Khalil had 15,000 Armenians from Bitlis killed in a single day (p 115). (I should note that Khalil in his memoirs claims to have been personally responsible for the deaths of 300,000 Armenians...he is quite proud of this in fact...) Nogalas describes some of the horrid manner of their deaths in great detail. He specifically cites that he witnessed the following: "After the massacres of Djarbekir, the tide of carnage and persecution rolled over the provinces of Adana and Northern Syria (Zeitun, Urfa, Marrash, etc) which were at the time crowded with deportees from Central and Northern Anatolia.....The provinces of Van, Bitlis, Djarbekir...were the only ones which suffered massacres in the true sense of the word. In the remaining vilayets of the Empire persecution took the form of deportations, which effected almost the same results as the massacres." He then discusses mortality rates (and non-benign causes for such) at from 75-95%! (p 117). The he follows by very clearly acknowledging: "there can be no doubt that the massacres and deportations took place in accordance with a laid-out plan for which the responsibility lay with the retrograde party, headed by the Grand Vizier Talat Pasha and the civil authorities under his orders. They aimed to make an end first of the Armenians, then of the greeks and other Christians, Ottoman subjects, in the Empire. We glean ample verification for this from the masacres of Sairt, Djesiret, and the surrounding districts, during which perished no less then two hundred thousand Nestorian Christians, Syrio-Catholics, Jacobites, etc, who had no connection whatever with the Armenians, and who had always been the Sultan's loyal subjects." (p 118) Nogales speaks very specifically about observing various Ottoman goveners and/or their direct agents leading band of irregulars tot he slaughter and of witnessing the crimes in action and the results. In each case they tell Nogales that they are doing such on orders of the central authorities. Additionally Nogales documents (in great detail) the manner in which all of these officials as well as the CUP heirarchy personally enriched themselves from the stolen wealth of the Armenians. After describing how he expends all his personal funds to feed the starving in Aleppo that he can manage Nogales describes a written order from Talat: "Officially we are forbidden to give the deportees any ration without a written order signed by the civil authorities of the province from which they came, along with other idiocies invented by Talat Pasha in order to kill the poor devils with starvation." (p 147).

          Comment


          • #6
            You Armenians are the same...You are putting forth a specific thing...we comment on this point...And,then....! You are jumping up another matter...

            I have commented on the post of Altan...!

            Comment


            • #7
              Hundreds of historians, scholars, Holocaust and genocide experts and statesmen have confirmed that the Armenian massacres were a typical case of genocide.

              Jurist Raphael Lemkin, who drafted the UN Convention on Genocide and coined the term "Genocide" in 1948, on many occasions cited the attempt to annihilate the Armenians as a clear case of genocide as defined by the UN Convention on Genocide. In his autobiography, Prof. Lemkin wrote:

              "I identified myself more and more with the suffering of the victim, whose numbers grew, as I continued my study of history. I understand that the function of memory is not only to register past events, but to stimulate human conscience. Soon contemporary examples of genocide followed, such as the slaughter of the Armenians in 1915."

              Elsewhere in the book he writes:

              "...A bold plan was formulated in my mind. This consisted [of] obtaining the ratification by Turkey [of the proposed UN Convention on Genocide. Ed] among the first twenty founding nations. This would be an atonement for [the] genocide of the Armenians.'

              Numerous non-Armenian and non-partisan historians have verified the reality of the Armenian Genocide. The International Association of Genocide Scholars, an eminent body of scholars who study genocide, during its 1997 convention, adopted a resolution unanimously reaffirming that:

              "The mass murder of over a million Armenians in Turkey in 1915 is a case of genocide which conforms to the statutes of the United Nations Convention on the Prevention and Punishment of Genocide. It further condemns the denial of the Armenian Genocide by the Turkish government and its official and unofficial agents and supporters."

              On April 23, 1999, more than 150 distinguished scholars and writers (among them Nobel Laureates Seamus Heaney, Wole Soyinka, Derek Walcott, in addition to Deborah E. Lipstadt, Norman Mailer, Helen Fine, Robert Melson, Arthur Miller, Joyce Carol Oates, Harold Pinter, Roger Smith, Daniel Goldhagen, Susan Sontag, William Styron, John Updike, Kurt Vonnegut, Cornel West, Henry Louis Gates, Alfred Kazin, Grace Paley, D.M Thomas,) published a declaration in the Washington Post stating:

              "We denounce as morally and intellectually corrupt the Turkish Government's denial of the Armenian Genocide." They went on to recommend to governments around the world to "refer to the 1915 annihilation of the Armenians as Genocide."

              On June 9, 2000, 126 Holocaust scholars (among them Nobel Laureate Elie Wiesel, Prof. Yehuda Bauer, Prof. Israel Charney, Prof. Irving L. Horwitz, Prof. Steven Jacobs, Prof. Steven Katz, Dr. Elizabeth Maxwell, Prof. Saul Mendlowitz, Prof. Jack Needle, Prof. Samuel Totten) published a statement in The New York Times:

              "...affirming that the World War I Armenian Genocide is an incontestable historical fact and accordingly urge the governments of Western democracies to likewise recognize it as such."

              Comment


              • #8
                The Armenian Deaths were the Result of a Rebellion and Inter-Communal Fighting

                The cornerstone of the Turkish Government's policy of denial is that what happened during WWI was inter-communal violence and the result of the Armenian rebellion. It was communal infighting if the organised attack by an empire's army on an unarmed minority can be described as such. In August 1914, all Armenian men between the age of 20 and 45 were conscripted in the Ottoman Army. How could the remaining unarmed Armenian population of mainly women, children and elderly people even contemplate an armed struggle against a majority population backed by a mighty empire, and ally of the German and Austro-Hungarian Empires? The consensus among German and Austrian officials who were in Turkey at the time was that there was no general coordinated rebellion by the Armenian population.

                In a seventy-two page report to Berlin (September 18, 1916), German Ambassador Count Wolff Metternich wrote:

                "There was neither a concerted general uprising nor was there a fully valid proof that such a synchronized uprising was planned or organised."

                Describing the futile and spotty Armenian resistance, Dr. Max Erwin Scheubner-Richter (German vice-consul in Erzerum, in eastern Turkey), wrote in a dispatch dated December 6, 1916:

                "They (the Turkish Leaders) were planning on fabricating, for the benefit of Allied Powers, and alleged revolution stirred up by the Dashnak (Armenian) party. They also planned to inflate the importance of isolated incidents and acts of self-defence by the Armenians and use it as an excuse to deport the targeted population which then would be massacred by escorting gendarmes and assorted gangs."

                Turkish Historian Professor Halil Berktay, on October 9, 2000, during an interview with the Turkish newspaper Raidikal, stated:

                "The activities of the Armenian guerrilla bands were generally localized, small-scale, and isolated."

                Vice-Marshall Joseph Pomiankowski, Austro-Hungary's military plenipotentiary, who during the was was attached to Ottoman general headquarters, described the self-defence of the Armenians as follows:

                "The Van uprising certainly was an act of desperation. The local Armenians realised that the general butchery against the Armenians had started and that they would be the next victims." Collapse of the Ottoman Empire (1928).


                Chief among Turkish government distortions is the accusation that during the First World War Armenians sided with the enemy - Tsarist Russia. At the time historic Armenia was occupied by two empires - the Ottoman and the Russian. Since imperial Russia oppressed Armenians (just as it oppressed its own citizens), there was no love lost between the Armenians and Russians. Armenians were conscripted in the Tsar's army - just as their brothers were in the Ottoman army. Rather than acting as a fifth columnists, Armenians in Turkey were fighting their own brothers on the Russian side - to defend Ottoman Turkey. Its estimated that about 250, 000 Armenians were conscripted into the Turkish Army.

                When Enver Pasha (the Turkish War Minister) was defeated by the Russians at Sarikamish, "It was Armenian soldiers who saved him from being killed or captured by the Czarist forces" ( David Marshall Lang and Christopher Walker, The Armenians: Report 32, Minority Rights Group, 1998). Moreover, Enver is on record for having "praised, in February 1915, the loyalty and bravery of the Armenian soldiers under his command." ( Christopher J. Walker, Armenia: The Survival of a Nation, London, 1980).

                The Turkish government launched its genocide against the Armenians at least three months after the Armenian soldiers had been already disarmed, taken to labour camps and eliminated. Furthermore, in his book The Decline and Fall of the Ottoman Empire (1992) Alan Palmer concluded:

                "...neither group [the Dashnaks or Hunchaks political parties] had links with the Russian government, as Ottoman apologists claim."

                Comment


                • #9
                  Dear Winnoman,i want to ask you ....

                  When we posted "the notice of 69 historians in the USA",you claimed that they didn't worked specific time period for the issue.I am reading you....But,you are posting everyone's argument other than historians having specific work on the period!

                  Now,another... an officer from Venezuelian Army!!!! Or a writer or a poet who is an enemy of Turkey... Ohh...
                  Last edited by sadi; 06-01-2005, 01:04 AM.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by sadi
                    This is exactly no genocide recognition!
                    I'm sad to say you completely miss Altan's point. Genocide was commited - this is clear. And it is shameful for Turks to deny it. This is clear!

                    Comment

                    Working...
                    X